Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

General beer chit chat
Post Reply
User avatar
weisseguy
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 1:46 pm
Name: Clinty McClintock

Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by weisseguy » Tue May 03, 2016 2:42 pm

I need your help to make the following awful plan better:

335bbl/year on a 1/2bbl system brewing 4 x 50L yield batches per day x 4 days per week for two different beer styles (non-lager).

How many fermeters will I need?
How many bright tanks?
How can I make this plan less shitty without spending significantly more money?

Please help me for the love of the beer gods.
Thanks!
Bottled: "Arrow's Oil" Oatmeal Stout, "Jess" Cascadian Black Session IPA, "Nimble Park" English Mild, "Complacence" Pale Ale
Fermenting: "Fire Burial" Mosaic SMaSH IPA, "Midnight Slider" Smoked Baltic Porter
Planning: Evil Twin Bikini Beer Clone

User avatar
LiverDance
Award Winner 6
Award Winner 6
Posts: 3817
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:50 pm
Name: Brian
Location: Sprybeeria

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by LiverDance » Tue May 03, 2016 3:27 pm

Check your business plan, your projected sales and wastage numbers should give you a good idea.
"Twenty years ago — a time, by the way, that hops such as Simcoe and Citra were already being developed, but weren’t about to find immediate popularity — there wasn’t a brewer on earth who would have gone to the annual Hop Growers of American convention and said, “I’m going to have a beer that we make 4,000 barrels of, one time a year. It flies off the shelf at damn near $20 a six-pack, and you know what it smells like? It smells like your cat ate your weed and then pissed in the Christmas tree.” - Bell’s Brewery Director of Operations John Mallet on the scent of their popular Hopslam.

User avatar
weisseguy
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 1:46 pm
Name: Clinty McClintock

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by weisseguy » Tue May 03, 2016 3:50 pm

LiverDance wrote:Check your business plan, your projected sales and wastage numbers should give you a good idea.
Maybe I asked the question wrong...

Roughly speaking, beer will spend 2 weeks in a fermenter and 1 week in a bright tank. In order to effectiively ferment and condition 335bbl annually I will need X number of fermenters and Y number of bright tanks. What are the values of X and Y?

I know this is pretty basic stuff but I've been at this all day so I'm just out of brain. Sorry bout that :drunk:
Bottled: "Arrow's Oil" Oatmeal Stout, "Jess" Cascadian Black Session IPA, "Nimble Park" English Mild, "Complacence" Pale Ale
Fermenting: "Fire Burial" Mosaic SMaSH IPA, "Midnight Slider" Smoked Baltic Porter
Planning: Evil Twin Bikini Beer Clone

User avatar
Keith
Award Winner 6
Award Winner 6
Posts: 6474
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:55 pm
Name: Keith
Location: Lower Sackville, NS

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by Keith » Tue May 03, 2016 3:56 pm

weisseguy wrote:I need your help to make the following awful plan better:

335bbl/year on a 1/2bbl system brewing 4 x 50L yield batches per day x 4 days per week for two different beer styles (non-lager).

How many fermeters will I need?
How many bright tanks?
How can I make this plan less shitty without spending significantly more money?

Please help me for the love of the beer gods.
Thanks!
You sir are mad. That's 700 batches per year. 3.36 per day brewing 4 day brew cycle.
14 Fermenters required per week.
2 week rotation.
= 28 fermenters.
Brite tanks if you are on top of everything you'd probably need 4-8 to keep up with it all.

Being realistic brewing that much per week isn't practical.
Brewer, Owner & Operator @ Ol' Biddy's Brew House
:cheers2:

User avatar
weisseguy
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 1:46 pm
Name: Clinty McClintock

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by weisseguy » Tue May 03, 2016 3:58 pm

Keith wrote:
weisseguy wrote:I need your help to make the following awful plan better:

335bbl/year on a 1/2bbl system brewing 4 x 50L yield batches per day x 4 days per week for two different beer styles (non-lager).

How many fermeters will I need?
How many bright tanks?
How can I make this plan less shitty without spending significantly more money?

Please help me for the love of the beer gods.
Thanks!
You sir are mad. That's 700 batches per year. 3.36 per day brewing 4 day brew cycle.
14 Fermenters required per week.
2 week rotation.
= 28 fermenters.
Brite tanks if you are on top of everything you'd probably need 4-8 to keep up with it all.

Being realistic brewing that much per week isn't practical.
I was thinking that might be the case...I just needed to hear it from someone else.

Clearly I need a bigger kettle/mashtun so I can brew less often. Either that, or pay myself less Hahahaha!!!!

How do these 1/2 bbl brewhouses even exist/survive?
Bottled: "Arrow's Oil" Oatmeal Stout, "Jess" Cascadian Black Session IPA, "Nimble Park" English Mild, "Complacence" Pale Ale
Fermenting: "Fire Burial" Mosaic SMaSH IPA, "Midnight Slider" Smoked Baltic Porter
Planning: Evil Twin Bikini Beer Clone

User avatar
Keith
Award Winner 6
Award Winner 6
Posts: 6474
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:55 pm
Name: Keith
Location: Lower Sackville, NS

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by Keith » Tue May 03, 2016 4:03 pm

weisseguy wrote: I was thinking that might be the case...I just needed to hear it from someone else.

Clearly I need a bigger kettle/mashtun so I can brew less often. Either that, or pay myself less Hahahaha!!!!

How do these 1/2 bbl brewhouses even exist/survive?
Part time brewery, full time real job.

Smallest one would\should go would be 4-5 barrels, but even then you will be a slave to the brewery and not able to keep up with supply.
1/2-1 barrel would be ideal for testing new recipes.
Also if you have no brewing experience, good chance you're going to have a rough go in the beginning.
Brewer, Owner & Operator @ Ol' Biddy's Brew House
:cheers2:

User avatar
LiverDance
Award Winner 6
Award Winner 6
Posts: 3817
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:50 pm
Name: Brian
Location: Sprybeeria

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by LiverDance » Tue May 03, 2016 4:10 pm

They don't, some do it for enjoyment with no profit and most others plan to expand asap.
"Twenty years ago — a time, by the way, that hops such as Simcoe and Citra were already being developed, but weren’t about to find immediate popularity — there wasn’t a brewer on earth who would have gone to the annual Hop Growers of American convention and said, “I’m going to have a beer that we make 4,000 barrels of, one time a year. It flies off the shelf at damn near $20 a six-pack, and you know what it smells like? It smells like your cat ate your weed and then pissed in the Christmas tree.” - Bell’s Brewery Director of Operations John Mallet on the scent of their popular Hopslam.

jason.loxton
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 927
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:44 pm
Name: Jason Loxton
Location: sydney ns

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by jason.loxton » Tue May 03, 2016 4:21 pm

To be blunt, your plan doesn't make any sense. You can scale up in volume to 50 gallon kettles, etc., for only a modest additional investment. (That's about as large as you can go with cheap off the shelves, before you have to go frankenbrew or buy professional gear.) Dave brings them in. At very least you need to do that.

Even then though, it probably doesn't make any sense at that scale (1 bbl net). I strongly encourage you to go read the many threads on nano start ups over at Probrewer.com to get an idea of the issues with production and costs, and to see what sort of models are feasible in your market. Remember that a good chunk of your overhead is going to be fixed or very close to fixed (accountant, NSLC permit, legal stuff, your wage, various layers of insurance, rent, etc.) and will be very, very hard to pay off on the income from an operation like you propose.

To be completely frank, opening any business--and a food service business 1000X that!--is a huge risky step, and it requires detailed and serious research before you even consider doing it. Before you go any further, you should spend a bunch of time on Probrewer, visit as many nanos as you can with a prepared list of informed questions, draft up a real business plan that includes some worse case scenario number crunching, and think seriously about whether you really want to get into a job that is going to require a lot of planning, a lot of brutal and unfun work, and very likely cost you your shirt at the end of the day.

Again to be blunt, if you're at the stage where you're throwing out random questions about very basic logistics (you really should know about scaling, basic equipment, etc. at this point) to a group of beer amateurs, you might want to step back and ask yourself whether you've really thought this through or have a clear idea of where you want to go or how you would go about getting there.

Note: All of the above is written with genuine kindness and respect... and a bucketload of caution! :)

Jason
Last edited by jason.loxton on Tue May 03, 2016 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jason.loxton
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 927
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:44 pm
Name: Jason Loxton
Location: sydney ns

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by jason.loxton » Tue May 03, 2016 4:47 pm

This thread is a good place to start:
http://discussions.probrewer.com/showth ... ve-Learned
Last edited by jason.loxton on Tue May 03, 2016 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Keggermeister
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 1102
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by Keggermeister » Tue May 03, 2016 4:56 pm

What Jason and Keith said. If you go the route that you propose, you will burn out within a year and hate brewing for a long time thereafter.
If beer is your passion, why aim to destroy it?
A good book to read is Brewing Up a Buisness by Sam Calagione. He started the way you describe, and wrote about how stupid and hard it was.
http://www.amazon.com/Brewing-Up-Busine ... a+business" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Keith
Award Winner 6
Award Winner 6
Posts: 6474
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:55 pm
Name: Keith
Location: Lower Sackville, NS

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by Keith » Tue May 03, 2016 5:53 pm

Also if you have some beer you want some input on, I would recommend submitting your entries to the 2016 Brewnosers comp as you are still considered a Amateur brewer.
Brewer, Owner & Operator @ Ol' Biddy's Brew House
:cheers2:

User avatar
weisseguy
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 1:46 pm
Name: Clinty McClintock

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by weisseguy » Fri May 04, 2018 9:30 am

I meant to thank all of you for your input way before now. THANK YOU!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bottled: "Arrow's Oil" Oatmeal Stout, "Jess" Cascadian Black Session IPA, "Nimble Park" English Mild, "Complacence" Pale Ale
Fermenting: "Fire Burial" Mosaic SMaSH IPA, "Midnight Slider" Smoked Baltic Porter
Planning: Evil Twin Bikini Beer Clone

elreplica
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:36 am
Name: Don
Location: South Shore, NS

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by elreplica » Sat May 05, 2018 1:14 am

Solid and real advice guys...
At Bat: several Czech Pils
On Deck: Cream Ale
In the Hole: Kolsch
Clean Up: Tall Ships Ale clones
On tap: Propeller Pils, Festa Cream Ale

User avatar
weisseguy
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 1:46 pm
Name: Clinty McClintock

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by weisseguy » Sat May 05, 2018 12:32 pm

elreplica wrote:Solid and real advice guys...
Yes! This helped me avoid making a lot of awful mistakes. I’ll still probably make stupid mistakes though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bottled: "Arrow's Oil" Oatmeal Stout, "Jess" Cascadian Black Session IPA, "Nimble Park" English Mild, "Complacence" Pale Ale
Fermenting: "Fire Burial" Mosaic SMaSH IPA, "Midnight Slider" Smoked Baltic Porter
Planning: Evil Twin Bikini Beer Clone

User avatar
oceanic_brew
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:14 pm
Name: Glen O'Keefe

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by oceanic_brew » Sun May 06, 2018 3:33 pm

So what’s the verdict. Did you change your plan or decide not to do it?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RossBee
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:36 pm
Name: Steffen Rosswog
Location: Baie Verte, NB

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by RossBee » Mon May 07, 2018 1:47 pm

Keith wrote:
Tue May 03, 2016 4:03 pm
weisseguy wrote: I was thinking that might be the case...I just needed to hear it from someone else.

Clearly I need a bigger kettle/mashtun so I can brew less often. Either that, or pay myself less Hahahaha!!!!

How do these 1/2 bbl brewhouses even exist/survive?
Part time brewery, full time real job.

Smallest one would\should go would be 4-5 barrels, but even then you will be a slave to the brewery and not able to keep up with supply.
1/2-1 barrel would be ideal for testing new recipes.
Also if you have no brewing experience, good chance you're going to have a rough go in the beginning.
Hey Keith,

How's that 4 to 5 barrel system working out for you, lol

:cheers:
Why brew beer I can buy?

User avatar
weisseguy
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 1:46 pm
Name: Clinty McClintock

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by weisseguy » Tue May 08, 2018 11:16 am

oceanic_brew wrote:So what’s the verdict. Did you change your plan or decide not to do it?

Still in the planning phase at this point. Locations have changed since this thread was started and I’ve decided to abandon (initially) the idea of offering food too and just focus on making great beers! But it’s still a dream of mine to start a craft brewery here on Cape Breton Island!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bottled: "Arrow's Oil" Oatmeal Stout, "Jess" Cascadian Black Session IPA, "Nimble Park" English Mild, "Complacence" Pale Ale
Fermenting: "Fire Burial" Mosaic SMaSH IPA, "Midnight Slider" Smoked Baltic Porter
Planning: Evil Twin Bikini Beer Clone

User avatar
Keith
Award Winner 6
Award Winner 6
Posts: 6474
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:55 pm
Name: Keith
Location: Lower Sackville, NS

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by Keith » Wed May 09, 2018 10:08 pm

Haha. Slave to the brewery and work full time. Hobby brewery and still enjoying it 7 months in. Wish I had a quarter mil. Lol

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Brewer, Owner & Operator @ Ol' Biddy's Brew House
:cheers2:

User avatar
weisseguy
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 1:46 pm
Name: Clinty McClintock

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by weisseguy » Fri May 25, 2018 9:41 am

Keith wrote:Haha. Slave to the brewery and work full time. Hobby brewery and still enjoying it 7 months in. Wish I had a quarter mil. Lol

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
I’m so jealous!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bottled: "Arrow's Oil" Oatmeal Stout, "Jess" Cascadian Black Session IPA, "Nimble Park" English Mild, "Complacence" Pale Ale
Fermenting: "Fire Burial" Mosaic SMaSH IPA, "Midnight Slider" Smoked Baltic Porter
Planning: Evil Twin Bikini Beer Clone

elreplica
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:36 am
Name: Don
Location: South Shore, NS

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by elreplica » Sat May 26, 2018 4:27 pm

Careful what you “weisse” for...🤔🤡👍
At Bat: several Czech Pils
On Deck: Cream Ale
In the Hole: Kolsch
Clean Up: Tall Ships Ale clones
On tap: Propeller Pils, Festa Cream Ale

User avatar
MitchK
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:55 pm
Name: Mitchell Kehoe
Location: Okanagan Valley, BC

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by MitchK » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:47 pm

My advice is that you can buy a 5bbl brewhouse from Colorado brewing systems for under 20k USD. It's a little sketchy but it seems to work ok

User avatar
weisseguy
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 1:46 pm
Name: Clinty McClintock

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by weisseguy » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:07 pm

MitchK wrote:My advice is that you can buy a 5bbl brewhouse from Colorado brewing systems for under 20k USD. It's a little sketchy but it seems to work ok



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bottled: "Arrow's Oil" Oatmeal Stout, "Jess" Cascadian Black Session IPA, "Nimble Park" English Mild, "Complacence" Pale Ale
Fermenting: "Fire Burial" Mosaic SMaSH IPA, "Midnight Slider" Smoked Baltic Porter
Planning: Evil Twin Bikini Beer Clone

User avatar
sheanhiggins
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:42 pm
Name: Shiggins
Location: Armdale

Re: Nanobrewhouse Build Help Ok/pls/tks

Post by sheanhiggins » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:42 am

Pm'd.
"Lets just brew some beer and we'll figure the rest out while we brew"

Post Reply

Return to “General Beer Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests