What does it take.....

[Anathema]

Hey guys,
Just a bit of a rant. So a while back I was told by my doctor to think long and hard about a new career since my injury(spinal injury). At this point you can see where Im going with this lol. After some deep thinking and planning I had set my eye on running a small brewery in the Lunenburg area ( my home when I was young). Started by chasing down numbers, suppliers, etc. The business plan was beginning to fill out and I had decided that it would be a future plan when me and my wife move back home. This is when the wall appeared. I grew frustrated and shelved my work.
After all my planning something dawned on me. This is game for the wealthy. Trust fund babies or the boomers who are "reinventing" themselves. Those too whom money is a passing thing or at least has the capacity to be such. I keep seeing more and more "breweries" popping up left and right. What is frustrating is that by the time I am capable of opening even a 5bbl system the market will be so saturated by breweries that it will be unworkable. My plan was to work very local, support locals, employ locals and brew beers that people could relate to. Some names I came up with, Dragger Dram, Foundry Ale, Casters Cask, Ironbug(welding/casting splash is refered to as ironbugs, tiny bug with a HUGE bite) Black Hearted Saint etc, all with recipes and such. But Im disgusted at this point. After looking at the new "brewery" bridge brewing co.(lol same name as a vancouver brewery) I cant help but be disheartened. How can company produce 300litres of beer a week, be open 8 hours total, have 2 fermenters and call itslef a brewery? More like a uber homebrew system. This screams hipster with wealthy parents playing brewer(were trying to be eco friendly...they need to understand the economy of scale). I dont have an MBA and I know 300 litres per brew(once a week) doesnt equal 80k litres per year. Hopefully their "investors" soon pull their head out twixt their legs or their gonna lose their shirts.
Short story, this industry is just a monopolized system and I dont know whether to give up on this dream or just plow on. Id love nothing more than to spend time at a place like rockbottom or hart and thistle on a brew day to see how this is done but thats as difficult as getting into propeller...lol. What do you guys thing of the state of affairs in NS brewery wise and any recommendations would be great. Thanks fellas and ladies.

Anathema

[mr x]

Drop into the rb and talk to Nash. He's pretty helpful.

There will always be room for good breweries. There just aren't that many great beers out there, regardless of how many breweries you see.

[jeffsmith]

There will always be room for good breweries. There just aren't that many great beers out there, regardless of how many breweries you see.

This. If you're dedicated to making great beer, the business will find you.

[CorneliusAlphonse]

With regards to bridge, their capacity is small, but 300L per batch isn't bad. If that allows them to operate for a few months and save up some money to get a third and then a fourth fermenter, allowing them to do more brews per week. Makes quite a bit of sense from the non-"trust-fund-baby" sense. Smaller batches so when thing go wrong it isn't a total loss. Fewer fermentors at the start to reduce the loans or money needed up front.

Otherwise though, Like the others have said there is always room for quality brewers.

[Anathema]

Well in bridges case they came in talking a game(to the media) of 80k-120k litres projected per year. Like blowing smoke considering a total not even reaching 15k litre per year not allowing for mess ups. And even after buying new ferms he'd have to brew 5 times a week(his poor brewer'd be destroyed) to hit that capacity. Currently they brew once a week and have a space (wrapped up in shiny new duds) which I imagine they are paying a pretty penny for, and in that area you could well see that in the 2.5k a month range or more. Hell where last I worked(in the area) we were running 1k per month for 550sqft. But still being out of beer all the time seems horribly under sized capacity wise and Ill admit rather frustrating considering Id like to try their beer and, especially their cool "Growlers"lol. Even imagining 300 litres selling for a total of 7.50 per litre(after allowing for loss per litre since kegs arent point of sale) thats still only 2300 per week before any costs come off the top( grain, water elec etc). I mean look at Hell Bay. He made it like a year before having to upscale and he went bloody huge. From all the numbers Ive run, and been told by brewery builders, it seems that entering with less than 3.5 bbl and 3-4 ferms and 2 brites is basically a recipe for a stalled fermentation, I mean brewery. Im not one for everybody gets trophy and these guys'll be no exception Im all for new brewerys but I will support solid brewers who are serious and improve fast, niche brewing in a niche market however is silly. I once heard the path to brewing is paved in good intentioned fools bones...
I definitely wanna see where hell bay goes with his brewery, one way or another. He seems to be finally getting into the game in a serious manner. I dislike people who play at something without committing, it tends to water down the quality of the product causing it to become ho hum and in cases like that to cover up crap they just throw money at it. People with it all on the line are where the best of anything comes from I find. So either I get rich fast or start hopin for miracles to happen lol. Id trade a kidney to make this happen but apparently those help with drinking in some weird way.

[bluenose]

do you have a great beer recipe? That would be the first place to start differentiating yourself. I think all breweries need a flagship brew.

I studied small business and entrepreneurship... I truly believe that anyone who is willing to put in the required effort to start a business, and we're talking 16 hour days for the first couple of years at least (especially in the hospitality industry), will be a success if they love what they do.

Take an honest look at yourself and ask if this is truly your passion and if you're willing to make the investment of time, effort, and money. You also need the support and buy-in from your family, as they will have to put up with you not being around and possibly helping you out with your new venture.

For funding options, check out ACOA and the BDC, they're a little more friendly to small business startups... once you have 5 years in, the banks will look at you differently

Salut!

[Anathema]

Yeah I was looking at ACOA as a venue, my family does not have any money. No buy in there lol. Guess it cant hurt to have the business plan tucked away ready to pull out when things look alright. Well we'll see how it goes, if the market floods Ill go back to the trades and build a boat.

[mr x]

So what has hell bay moved into?

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

[mr x]

From their facebook page. AFAIAC, that plate filter should be thrown into the Mersey River where it belongs.

And even after buying new ferms he'd have to brew 5 times a week(his poor brewer'd be destroyed)

I think you had better be prepared to brew at least 5 times a week....not many days off running your own business.

[GAM]

Jerimah

I agree with X, Greg has allowed outsiders to help out on brew day (God forbid you are having a pint when the malt arrives).

He has answered my questions, and been a very nice (but crusty some times, Like most of us) and very entertaining.

Ask, the worst he can say is no.

Have you asked Prop, Garrison or Granite?

Sandy

[Anathema]

Yeha guys this really helps. Ill ask the guys at RockBottom first. They seem super chill and all about good brews. Also X I laughed my coffee out my nose because of that plate filter crack. Aint that thing a beast. Those ferms look around 5bbl or 7. Hes deifnately not messing around. I guess actually helping on a big brew day would be one of the best test since it wil definately be an eye opener! I think Ill get down there this week for a pint...or four. Also anyone entering Garrisons brew off? Im really happy with my blonde, antwerp yeast, Saphir dry hopped. I decided to do a base brew(no dry hopping and standard belgian strain) then switched one over to antwerp and dry hopping to get some good bitter. Also what a funky hop saphir is. Only other question, anyone know where I can get like 6 corney kegs for a decent price?

[Anathema]

Oh and Hellbay moved into a space on the main street of Liverpool. Huge space and decent amount of store front, doesnt look like a tap room included in the layout.

[mr x]

Liverpool is a nice place. But now that the mill has closed, may turn into a ghost town.....

[GAM]

We went to Lane's last summer. Great place in that area and the first time I had Hell Bay.

I'd go to see the brewery if I could tour.

May be a BN road trip. If I can talk my son in to getting his license we could have a DD.

Sandy

[LTownLiquorPig]

Liverpool is a nice place. But now that the mill has closed, may turn into a ghost town.....

Take this with a grain of salt, but I just asked my Aunt from Liverpool about thay yesterday, and so far it's not. A lot of communting to Alberta, but families staying in town, White Point is back up and running (+probable Yarmouth ferry), and there is apparently much hustle and bustle at the Mill site in Brooklyn, with some rumour of a new tennant although on a smaller scale. Bowater had it's own container port, maybe something involving that? Shelburne has a container port I believe, why not Brooklyn/Liverpool?

Anyways, I'm excited for Hell Bay upping capacity. Hope maybe they'll be distributed a little more widely.

[Anathema]

Yeah you make a good point about the mill. Good news is the overhead costs for space would be WAY lower than Lunenburg or Bwater.

[chalmers]

Gypsy brewery? Go in and use the system when it's not in use.
Or maybe a split ownership?
Not sure on the legalities of these in NS.

[Y-brew]

I Just wanted to add my 2 cents on "What does it take....." , well, from what I've seen, it takes a lot!
A lot of money, effort, money, time, and money. I have wanted to start my own brewery for years now, but after seriously looking into it (business plans, feasibility studies, funding options, and most important, talking to brewers that have done it) I don't think that this is the best career choice for me. Yes, I believe that I make a really good brew, but the business is more than making good beer.
These guys who are starting small, must have other sources of income. I'm not sure on the Bridge guys, but I am frequently at Hell Bay, and I know that the owner, Mark, also works a 40 hr/week full time job, and he isn't sure if he'll be able to leave it after they expand to the 10bbl system. (I also asked about the plate filter in the pic, he said they don't plan on using it a lot).
If I were younger, and wanted this type of career, I think the best approach is to actually get a job in a brewery, learn the in's and out's from the brewing, packaging, sales, marketing and all other aspects of the business before trying to open my own (kind of like Randy @ Sea Level).
Just my 2 cents, for what its worth.

P.S. Any word on the other brewery trying to start up in Lunenburg, the South Shore Brewing Co.?

[Araxi]

I don't necessarily think it's a game for the wealthy or "Trust fund babies or the boomers who are "reinventing" themselves" as every business requires a significant cash outlay and is full of pitfalls and bureaucratic red tape as I'm sure any new business owner can attest to . I think the main fact that breweries are springing up has more to do with the gaining popularity of craft beer really.

[derek]

I don't necessarily think it's a game for the wealthy or "Trust fund babies or the boomers who are "reinventing" themselves" as every business requires a significant cash outlay and is full of pitfalls and bureaucratic red tape as I'm sure any new business owner can attest to . I think the main fact that breweries are springing up has more to do with the gaining popularity of craft beer really.

I don't actually know anybody who's created a brewery ... yet. But I know a lot of people who've started wineries, and they always said: "How do you make a small fortune in the wine business? Start with a large fortune." And as far as I can see, your investment in creating a brewery can only be more expensive than a winery.

The simple fact of both businesses is that (unless you're Pete Luckett) you're trying to make a business producing quality, when your backers want, essentially, quantity.

I had a good friend, one of the best wine makers in Ontario (Amateur Winemaker of the year, many years), who decided he was going to open a winery producing great Chardonnays. He made the mistake of going into business as a 3-way partnership with two accountants. The winery still exists, they make shit, and he lives in France. Of course, I also had another friend who was probably an even more successful amateur, who opened a winery where he makes pure plonk - their major profit centre is producing slightly sweet wines labelled for Jack & Jill's wedding... He isn't quite Pete Luckett, but he has the same attitude. He isn't going to get rich either, unless one of the big wine corps buys him out, but he's making a good living. He's actually more a sort of cross between Luckett & Jost - his winery gets a big boost from the fact that he inherited a working vineyard from his father.

So yes, it's a business for people with a lot of money to begin. If you are willing to sacrifice either your principles - and make mass appeal beer - or your principal, you can go somewhere. Or you can be a brewpub, or a nano-brewery, where there's little cash outlay for the actual brewing, but you're never going to reach enough people to grow your business.

[Anathema]

Lots of feedback. Some see it as a game of money like myself and others dont. What seems to be agreed upon is that it is expensive either way you spin it. Logically that means people without capital(large enormous or other) are bound to fall between the cracks or fail outright. My read on things. I am doing this simply because I CANNOT work in a physically high risk career such as a trade, which btw seem to be very anti young male lately. Since trades are one of the few ways to make decent money thats out. I love making beer, just love it. But if I cannot make this my career without having a career to pay for this career. Seems that the best investment is to a company where the individual puts all their time into it. Im a cynic as I think most should be. You guys have given me much to think on but you haven't dispelled the reality of it being a money game, the small fortune from a large fortune quote really makes the case. Now on to south shore brewing co....I honestly dont know, they have money thats a certainty(sponsoring events and having soccer teams named after them) they have boxes printed for their lager(lager really, most people start ale side due to faster turn around and expand to lager after a few years, Dogfish head) lots of tshirts but beyond that I havent seen anything. They posted on their facebook about being open in October but that didnt happen. No word on where or when theyll open or what they be brewing for that matter. Have they been to the beer fets, I would imagine that would be an excellent place to test the waters for their brews, hell that`d be part of my plan to establish customer base. ANyone know whats going on there?

[mr x]

The bottom line is that any manufacturing business is going to cost money to start-up.

[Anathema]

Granted X this I know. I worry about the red tape people speak of. Is it the type of red tape that disappears when money is thrown at it or does one need to know somebody who knows somebody. After the recent NSLC debacle I just have to wonder.

[mr x]

There are rules, you should talk to HpHunter or Araxi.

[bluenose]

You mentioned that you need to find another career due to injuries... wouldn't large-scale brewing be physically demanding? Lot's a grains, cleaning equipment, etc...

Maybe workers comp will pay for you to go the brewmaster school?