Hamburger patties, ingredients, techniques, etc.

[mr x]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... ety-rules/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://modernistcuisine.com/2012/07/for ... extra-fat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[NASH]

I used to think it was against health code or 'illegal' to serve rare burgers in Canada because that's what I was always told, but it's not. As eluded to in the article, it's a heat score for spot inspections. No restaurant wants a health inspector constantly up their ass. It's as safe as eating rare steak when handled correctly. I don't think twice about eating a rare burger from a trusted source, that generally means grinding it myself or from a couple spots here that grind their own daily.

[mr x]

I always thought there was a law against serving ground beef below a certain temp too, but have never found it...

There's a pretty good read in Modernist Cuisine, Volume 1. I could probably find a digital copy for those interested.

[GuingesRock]

I've always wondered if you ground your own just before cooking, if would be fine to go as rare as you wanted. I thought the harmful bacteria live on the surface and that's why you can have a blue rare steak with the outside barely seared. I'm probably wrong on all of that, and haven't had any kind of food prep training.

[mr x]

Time after grinding has no correlation to the amount of bacteria on the surface that you would have ground into the meat, or that could exist on your grinder. The safety involved in eating a burger cooked to a temp that doesn't kill e coli to a 6.5D standard (if you believe that 6.5D reduction is the proper standard, which is another topic altogether), is starting with meat that has very limited e coli to begin with. It's all an intersection of estimation combined with science. At the end of the day, you can go with CFIA guidelines and be confident you are covered under all situations, or start reading and learning, and then make the judgement calls yourself.

[NASH]

That's part of the concern but more so the tools. It's all common sense really. How clean are the knives, the hands that handle the meat, grinder parts, any and all surfaces meat come in contact with etc. It's all getting ground into the mix then allowed to grow for a few days before making it's way to the consumer. It's almost amazing how few people get sick eating rare burger State side. Speaks volumes to federally inspected meat processing facilities, I think.

Transmitted from the Hop-phone.

[Celiacbrew]

That's part of the concern but more so the tools. It's all common sense really. How clean are the knives, the hands that handle the meat, grinder parts, any and all surfaces meat come in contact with etc. It's all getting ground into the mix then allowed to grow for a few days before making it's way to the consumer. It's almost amazing how few people get sick eating rare burger State side. Speaks volumes to federally inspected meat processing facilities, I think.

Transmitted from the Hop-phone.

The Americans also use ammonia to sanitize the outside surface of the meat after the carcass is broken down and before it is ground up. That helps to drastically reduce the e. Coli contamination. A home chef can do the same thing and drop the meat in boiling water to quickly clean the outside surface before grinding.

[mr x]

I personally think that the US system has far worse problems than the Canadian system, but I've never seen a statistical analysis, just news feeds and other crap:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fo ... ted_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GuingesRock]

Delicious, but potentially fatal. Shame

What's that fish the Japanese eat with a passion, is it pufferfish? that if not done right kills you.

[NASH]

Delicious, but potentially fatal. Shame

Similar to driving a car, delicious. Save more risky than eating burger

Back on topic....

I'm going to grind beef later on. I pretty much always do course grind only but I might try medium today. Here's why: the best burger in HRM is, arguably, found at Two Doors Down. The texture is one of the better attributes and it's ground to about medium coarseness. They cook to about med-well which is pretty much perfect to actually get that texture. I like med-rare burger but it's pretty darn mushy

[TimG]

I've always been interested in this as well. I've had med-rare burgers in the US, at some 'less than ideal' establishments.. so a bit risky I guess. I've also had some from some nice spots, and been pretty confident. I've also eaten some at Hoptoberfest and was quite confident the alcohol would kill any bacteria.. haha (ok, they were also well sourced and handled by a couple of knowledgeable, if not a bit cranky at times, brewers.. Miss you guys.. ).

I have looked for those time/temp tables before without luck, thanks Rob (though I would like one that was specific to E Coli if I could find it).

An interesting thing to note is.. I've actually had 3 different burgers at three different places here in Calgary in the last few months that would cook to order. They all claim to source and freshly grind in house. They were all quite good! So it is definitely not 'illegal' here (and sounds like not elsewhere either.. ). I'm with Nash though, sometimes the texture of a true med rare (which can often be a little less as delivered) can be pretty mushy.

Personally, I'd like a 80/20 griddled burger about 3/4" thick after cooking with some pretty good light pink right in the center.. as an ideal burger. Super crusty/salty crust.. lots of 'juice' (it's fat folks.. beef juice is fat! ha).

Shit this thread is making me hungry..

[mr x]

It's a bit funny on the E-Coli. There doesn't seem to be too many tables out there, only for salmonella. The best explanation I have read is that they are close is reaction, with E-Coli being more heat sensitive. The best info I have read is in Volume 1 of Modenist Cuisine. Easy to read but thorough with good graphs and tables.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[CorneliusAlphonse]

Isn't e coli more of an indicator organism than an actual health risk on its own? Ie e coli itself isn't very harmful, but it is only ever present when there has been contamination from a fecal source. May be way off base and definitely not super helpful to this conversation

[GuingesRock]

Isn't e coli more of an indicator organism than an actual health risk on its own? Ie e coli itself isn't very harmful, but it is only ever present when there has been contamination from a fecal source. May be way off base and definitely not super helpful to this conversation

No, E. coli is the cause of "hamburger disease" (haemolytic uremic syndrome).

Then there's salmonella: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20029017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;