Missed Gravity again for the 3rd straight time! Help Please

[BigEasy]

So I am a Rookie and AG and just finished my third batch and missed the gravity again and this is frustrating. This time I did a cream ale with numbers below.

Mash Water 2.83 Gal @ 150F for 60mins
Sparge Water 5.64 Gal @ 168F (Batch Sparge let it sit for 10mins)
Collected 7.0 Gal of Pre Boil Wort
Original Gravity was 1.030, but kit called for 1.044
Final Gravity was 1.004, but kit called for 1.008
Total Grain weight was 8.50LB

I use a rectangle cooler with a bazooka screen and I use kits as I am just starting out. I don't use DME at all as I don't feel comfortable with this and don't take a pre boil gravity reading. Is that one of my mistakes, not take a pre boil gravity reading?? I thought the all grain kits I am buying I wouldn't have to do this?? I feel with this beer as the ABV is about 3.5% is a waste of beer as it such a light beer now and should have been 4.8%. Any help would be great.

[sleepyjamie]

So I am a Rookie and AG and just finished my third batch and missed the gravity again and this is frustrating. This time I did a cream ale with numbers below.

Mash Water 2.83 Gal @ 150F for 60mins
Sparge Water 5.64 Gal @ 168F (Batch Sparge let it sit for 10mins)
Collected 7.0 Gal of Pre Boil Wort
Original Gravity was 1.030, but kit called for 1.044
Final Gravity was 1.004, but kit called for 1.008
Total Grain weight was 8.50LB

I use a rectangle cooler with a bazooka screen and I use kits as I am just starting out. I don't use DME at all as I don't feel comfortable with this and don't take a pre boil gravity reading. Is that one of my mistakes, not take a pre boil gravity reading?? I thought the all grain kits I am buying I wouldn't have to do this?? I feel with this beer as the ABV is about 3.5% is a waste of beer as it such a light beer now and should have been 4.8%. Any help would be great.

I recently went back to 5 gallon batch sparges and had low efficiency as well on my first batch. All my measurements were fine, water levels, ph, water additions, etc.. I had a feeling it is my grain miller that needs adjustment. A few things come to mind:

1) Measure pH and ensure it is in the 5.2 range for proper conversion
2) Ensure your grain is crushed properly
3) Calibrate your hydrometer or refractometer
4) Ensure you don't have any dough balls in your mash
5) Measure pre-boil OG to determine your mash efficiency and adjust if you don't hit your target. (ie: add a bit of sugar or DME)

Don't worry about the low ABV. It's a learning experience.

[darciandjenn]

I'm having the opposite problem where we end up with higher OG than expected and less volume - I think the boil-off rate needs to be adjusted in our equipment profile in beersmith.... anyway, that's not your problem.

How much did you end up in your fermenter?
I'm guessing your grains come pre-crushed with those kits... how old are the kits when you're brewing them?
Did you hit your mash temps?
How are you documenting your procedure, gravities and volumes? If it's a constant thing then maybe you just need to say this is how efficient your system is and you just need to adjust by buying more grain. I wonder what the assumed efficiency is with those kits...

[darciandjenn]

Also, a 3.5% cream ale sounds like a great thing to have on hand for hot summer days or for when your macro drinking buds come over.

[Hobbitfu]

As to your comment about a kit and not needing a gravity reading. There are many factors that can effect the extraction of sugar, some of which are system dependent. 5 people can have same recipe same amount of grain and have different gravity readings. As stated above, pH and water composition, dough balls, mash and sparge temp. How accurate are your volumes? If you are gathering more wort before boil the gravity will be dilute. If you aren't boiling vigorous enough or long enough you will have more end volume at lower gravity. Sometimes depending on system you may need extra grain or malt extract to compensate. But take notes of pre and post boil volume and gravity to help see what is impacting your reduced gravity.

[BigEasy]

I'm having the opposite problem where we end up with higher OG than expected and less volume - I think the boil-off rate needs to be adjusted in our equipment profile in beersmith.... anyway, that's not your problem.

How much did you end up in your fermenter? Just about 5.5 Gallons
I'm guessing your grains come pre-crushed with those kits... how old are the kits when you're brewing them? This Kit was about 4 Months old, but was stored in a cool dry place in basement.
Did you hit your mash temps? Mash temp was 150F I was hoping for 152-154F
How are you documenting your procedure, gravities and volumes? If it's a constant thing then maybe you just need to say this is how efficient your system is and you just need to adjust by buying more grain. I wonder what the assumed efficiency is with those kits...

I don't take a Pre-Boil gravity and wonder if this could be a major problem in my steps. I am also thinking my volumes might be off a bit and causing me issues as well, but as I said a rookie who is learning. Other answers to your questions above in bold.

[Hobbitfu]

I suspect you may not be boiling off enough. If you have 7 gallons of pre boil wort you would need to boil off a good 6L of water to hit 5.5G of fermentation volume (of which you will lose some to trub for about 5G of bottling volume). I generally evaporate about 3L per 60 minutes (your method may vary)...

[Broob]

When I started all grain I was having a hard time hitting my target OG. First big problem was that I greatly over-estimated my efficiency. On low to moderate gravity beers I have Beersmith set to 70% and on high gravity beers, much lower. Strike and sparge water volumes were off for me and that gets dialed in as you learn your equipment. Running my grain through the mill twice instead of once also helped, as did stirring my mash every 10-15 minutes.

[BigEasy]

When I started all grain I was having a hard time hitting my target OG. First big problem was that I greatly over-estimated my efficiency. On low to moderate gravity beers I have Beersmith set to 70% and on high gravity beers, much lower. Strike and sparge water volumes were off for me and that gets dialed in as you learn your equipment. Running my grain through the mill twice instead of once also helped, as did stirring my mash every 10-15 minutes.

So there is now issue stirring the mash during the 60mins? Thought it would cause issues if you did with the grain bed.

[Broob]

When I started all grain I was having a hard time hitting my target OG. First big problem was that I greatly over-estimated my efficiency. On low to moderate gravity beers I have Beersmith set to 70% and on high gravity beers, much lower. Strike and sparge water volumes were off for me and that gets dialed in as you learn your equipment. Running my grain through the mill twice instead of once also helped, as did stirring my mash every 10-15 minutes.

So there is now issue stirring the mash during the 60mins? Thought it would cause issues if you did with the grain bed.

Not to my knowledge.

[MitchK]

if you have a recirculating mash and fly sparge then integrity of the bed might matter.

If you're doing batch sparging or biab I can't see stirring hurting anything.

[BigEasy]

if you have a recirculating mash and fly sparge then integrity of the bed might matter.

If you're doing batch sparging or biab I can't see stirring hurting anything.

True now that I think about it as I do Batch Sparging.

[Hobbitfu]

I sometimes stir, sometimes not (batch sparge). Just don't stir 10 minutes or so before draining or be sure to vorlauf enough to settle grain bed again. But not the end of the world regardless (in my opinion).

[Hobbitfu]

I was just reading an article or post about how a thinner mash can increase mash efficiency (anyone test this?). Can try transferring some of your sparge water to your mash. Especially for a lower gravity beer where you generally have more space in the mashtun.

[Keith]

I was just reading an article or post about how a thinner mash can increase mash efficiency (anyone test this?). Can try transferring some of your sparge water to your mash. Especially for a lower gravity beer where you generally have more space in the mashtun.

I only do full volume mashes. Brewhouse efficiency is 72-74%.

[Hobbitfu]

I was just reading an article or post about how a thinner mash can increase mash efficiency (anyone test this?). Can try transferring some of your sparge water to your mash. Especially for a lower gravity beer where you generally have more space in the mashtun.

I only do full volume mashes. Brewhouse efficiency is 72-74%.

Generally the same efficiency I get batch sparging. My mash thickness varies with gravity. High gravity I run out of space and have thicker mash...

[joe_r_harvie]

Are you reading your OG at too warm a temperature? If it is warmer than 60 degrees F you need to add a correction.

[RossBee]

I was just reading an article or post about how a thinner mash can increase mash efficiency (anyone test this?). Can try transferring some of your sparge water to your mash. Especially for a lower gravity beer where you generally have more space in the mashtun.

I only do full volume mashes. Brewhouse efficiency is 72-74%.

This. And:

RELAX, have a home brew. Go over your steps, find where you fucked up, it's not rocket science. Do a duplicate and see if you come up with the same result. Keep record of each step, however insignificant it may seem at the time.

Don't dwell on minor differences like 150F or 154F mash with the huge difference in FG you have. It's something simple such as hydrometer error, test temp error, conversion issues (did you do an iodine test?), pre-boil/post boil volume hydrometer reading / hydrometer readings calculations. Break it down, work it backwards, you'll figure it out.