Keg Conditioning

[MikeMorrison]

Any of you keggers out there doing keg conditioning? I love cask conditioned beer and I'd like to try it in a corny keg with an English style ale I'll be brewing. Any tips for best results? Beersmith has a keg option on their carbonation tool so I was planning to just go with that amount of dextrose. Should I burp the keg with c02 a few times to purge any oxygen? should I periodically release a bit of gas from the keg or would that just be defeating the purpose? There is suprisingly little information about this on-line.

Thanks

[mthibodeau]

Not quite sure where it is, but grock has a few posts on this topic, some quite detailed

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[GuingesRock]

It's a long thread but in it is my development of my keg conditioning process, with help and input from the brewers here. Might give you some ideas: http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... f=3&t=4986" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MikeMorrison]

That's great. I'll take some time and have a read through the thread.

Thanks!

[chalmers]

Sorry for the late response, but to answer your key points above:

I like the idea of purging the air from the headspace with CO2 to reduce oxidization, as we are beyond the point that the yeast require O2.
After transfer, you should hit the keg with a bit of pressure, to ensure the lid seals to the keg. It doesn't have to be much, 5 psi should be plenty.
If you are following the guidelines for CO2 volumes vs. priming sugar, you shouldn't need to burp your keg during the fermentation (you don't burp your bottles). And you can always release it after the conditioning is done/immediately before serving, if you sample and it's excessive.

[GuingesRock]

I think there's two distinct things being discussed here and the terminology is not so distinct.

I see keg conditioning as being the same as cask conditioning but done in a keg. It isn't an established process and there are only a few people doing that.

On reflection, I think, but not sure, that Chris is talking about keg carbonation which is a different thing.

I did quite a study of traditional English brewing, cellarmanship, and also visited several real ale breweries in the UK where beer is still brewed the same way it has been brewed for hundreds of years. I passed on what I learnt to this site. I did make real ale (as defined by CAMRA) in kegs and really enjoyed it. I started seriously competing on the BOTY circuit and at that point I had to modify my process. Real ale is traditionally at 1 volume of carbonation and served at 12C and I didn’t think that would go down well with the judges for most styles. I still moved my beer to kegs (with dip tubes shortened by 1 ½”) as soon as the most active fermentation was over (3-4 days) or if I was dry hopping, 7 days, with the additional three dry hopping days. I think I proved that made good beer, and it was in a way stealing from the traditional cask conditioning process.

There is very little cask conditioned/keg conditioned/real ale production in North America, but in the UK all the hip young people drink the real ale vs. they drink Coors here.

There are craft beer “cask beer events” organized here, but sadly it is often just beer put in casks …As Brewnoser recently commented on Twitter; he will start going to cask beer events when they start making cask beer. Again terminology. When someone organizes a “cask beer event” that leaves the door open for brewers to fill a cask from a brite tank and take it along. The term “cask conditioned beer” is specific to real ale where secondary fermentation has occurred in the cask without the use of CO2, and this term is defined by CAMRA.

If you have an interest, I recommend this book as an excellent introduction: https://www.amazon.ca/Cellarmanship-Pat ... larmanship" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[chalmers]

I was definitely under the impression that the OP was asking about doing keg or bulk carbing, as inferred by the comment on adding dextrose for carbonation. Correct me if I'm wrong, GRock, but you would not be adding extra fermentables when doing a "proper" cask/keg conditioning.

But even when cask conditioning in a keg, would you not want to put a bit of CO2 in the keg to help seal the lid, or would it be left to do so naturally after enough pressure is built up?

[MikeMorrison]

Yeah and I guess I'm not 100% clear on what I'm asking either. I think I've been thinking that keg conditioning and keg carbonating are the same thing but I'm seeing now that they are not. I've had beer out of a cask 3 times. From Garrison on a hand pump at Henry House, An in house best bitter at The Townhouse and one I put up with the guys at Breton Brewing for an event I was involved with there. Not sure how the Garrison stuff was done. The Townhouse beer was one of the best beers I've had and I loved the lower carbonation and "feel" of that beer. It is cask conditioned (I believe) and served on a hand pump. The BB stuff was quite good but was a bit of an experiment. If memory serves we put some not quite finished beer in the cask and added a bit of really unfinished beer to that.

I think what I'd like to achieve is some imitation of that real ale "feel" but in a corny keg. I just got a few donated to the cause so I have one to spare for an experiment. Thanks for the information. I still have a lot of reading to do!

[MikeMorrison]

@chalmers you are correct. I was definitely asking about keg carbonating thinking the process was the same. Starting to find some clarity (and making more work for myself) through this thread. Much appreciated.

[GuingesRock]

Looks like it's less confused now. I might have added to the confusion. I missed the bit about dextrose when I read the OP, which would not be proper for keg conditioning. No need for CO2 if you put beer in the keg that's still fermenting I found.

[GuingesRock]

I think what I'd like to achieve is some imitation of that real ale "feel" but in a corny keg. I just got a few donated to the cause so I have one to spare for an experiment. Thanks for the information. I still have a lot of reading to do!

I don't think there's anything wrong with this. It's a good thing to pull in aspects of brewing from traditional methods. I like innovation and as mentioned I did the same kind of thing. You can't call it real ale or cask conditioned though (not that you'd want to) as those terms have a specific definition.

The secret to Jared Carleburg's success in the Canadian BOTY competitions over the past few years is that he does a lot of decoction mashing. A very laborious process borrowed from traditional German and Czech brewing: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti ... on_Mashing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's another very useful study. I took the shortcut and attempted to emulate the effects of decoction mashing through malt selection.

[MikeMorrison]

So after a bit more reading and viewing I think I'd like to give this a try. Thinking about something like a bitter with an OG of 1045-1050. Can you suggest a gravity at which I would transfer it to the keg? Or, I guess, a gravity above my target FG at which to transfer? And what would you take off the dip tube? Couple of inches? Thanks for all the help!