Phosphoric Acid

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Taigh-Leanna
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Phosphoric Acid

Post by Taigh-Leanna » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:09 pm

No one around seems to carry phosphoric acid for mash pH control, so I picked up some 'Dutch Nutrient ph Down' 85% phosphoric acid from Steve's Hydroponics. I dunno, something to do with weed. Anyway, just curious if anyone has used this? Any idea what the other 15% is? I can only assume it's food grade, but I can't seem to find an msds on the stuff.

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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by LiverDance » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:41 pm

bebbington industries in burnside is where I got my phosphoric acid. I believe mine is 75%. I can't imagine a problem with the stuff you picked up.
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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by RubberToe » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:51 pm

The remaining 15% is likely water.
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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by Taigh-Leanna » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:58 pm

That's what I'm hoping. Their 30% has ammonium dihydrogenorthophosphate (whatever that is ) and citric acid though, so who knows. I emailed Dutch Nutrient for an msds, we'll see if they respond.

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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by oceanic_brew » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:50 pm

What's the benefits of phosphoric over Lactic?

Is it the flavor contribution of Lactic? Or it's ability to affect ph?

Been using Lactic for about two years and haven't noticed any issues.


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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by Taigh-Leanna » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:02 pm

From what I've read, there's the taste benefit, or rather a lack-of-taste benefit, but also hardiness benefit as well. Lactic acid tends to break down faster at mash temp. That's not first hand knowledge though, I've never used it.

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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by RossBee » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:10 am

Anybody ever do a side by side with and without additives to the water profile and actually found a distinctly different flavour profile in the final product.

I mean a blind test.

I do side by sides all the time, just for fun and my own interest, say 2 rows from different supplier (ooooh), haven't found a difference yet. Just asking.
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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by McGruff » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:16 am

From what I have read, Lactic Acid doesn't leave any flavour contribution at all because of the small amount used.

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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by jacinthebox » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:25 am

we get ours at bebbington...it's 75% but ask them to cut it down to 10%...way easier to measure
Lactic we just order from everwood at 88%
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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by oceanic_brew » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:11 pm

McGruff wrote:From what I have read, Lactic Acid doesn't leave any flavour contribution at all because of the small amount used.
Yeah. I often only need about 1.5 to 2 ml in the mash to get down to 5.2

I once made a blackberry gose souring with only lactic. It was well past the amount I use for regular additions before I began to taste a difference.

That says nothing to the long term affect.

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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by jacinthebox » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:16 pm

I add 15ml 88% lactic per carboy when using brett. brett seems to do wonderful things to lactic acid...pineapples mostly for me.
using 15ml per carboy normally takes my post boil wort down to 4.5ph.
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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by KB1138 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:26 pm

RossBee wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:10 am
Anybody ever do a side by side with and without additives to the water profile and actually found a distinctly different flavour profile in the final product.

I mean a blind test.

I do side by sides all the time, just for fun and my own interest, say 2 rows from different supplier (ooooh), haven't found a difference yet. Just asking.


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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by jason.loxton » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:31 pm

Slight thread redirection, but anyone use hydrochloric acid? My girlfriend is a research chemist and can get me small amounts of dilute lab grade HCl for free. It reacts to form chloride, right?, and should be benign or positive in a beer. Is it just not widely used because it's hard to get pure stuff as a consumer and is so aggressively corrosive? Or is there another reason not use it that I am unaware of?

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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by Taigh-Leanna » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:19 pm

Got a reply.

"Thanks for your email. Sorry for the delay in response. The acid is labeled for lab and industrial use and is not food grade. The other 15% is water.  I would not expect there to be contaminants in this product. At the rate you would be using it, it would not be a significant part of your mash."

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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by EastCoastHoppers » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:46 pm

Personally, if it is not considered food grade I wouldn't use it. Lab and industrial use chemicals could contain traces of heavy metals or other toxic contaminates that wouldn't interfere with it's intended purpose but could be toxic for humans.
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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by Broob » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:18 pm

EastCoastHoppers wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:46 pm
Personally, if it is not considered food grade I wouldn't use it. Lab and industrial use chemicals could contain traces of heavy metals or other toxic contaminates that wouldn't interfere with it's intended purpose but could be toxic for humans.
A lot of people on the forum use phosphoric from Bebbington with no issues.
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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by EastCoastHoppers » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:11 pm

and they are free to do so. I'm not saying that it can't be done. It is up to each individual to make that choice.

There is a reason things are labelled as food grade though which takes into consideration how things are processed and/or purified.

I'm just saying that personally, I wouldn't use it unless it was food grade.
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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by Celiacbrew » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:20 am

The stuff from Bebbington’s is food grade. It is FCC compliant which is the US certification for use in the production of food.
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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by Jimmy » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:22 am

They told me the reason it's not technically food grade is because they repackage it at their facility in Burnside. When they receive it, it's food grade.

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Re: Phosphoric Acid

Post by elreplica » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:47 am

I guess the CaCl from my pool is out of the question lol!
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