Lagering

[jeffsmith]

I think there's an old BrewingTV episode about lagering in caves in the US. Might be worth checking out. I'm pretty sure it's based around some beer festival in Minnesota.

[GuingesRock]

Thanks Jeff.

I think I need a chamber that will go between 2C and 10C for how I want to do it, so that might mean a freezer with a controller. That setup would give the maximum flexibility for lagering and would allow adaptations and any possible temperature range that might be required from freezing to room temperature.


Wait! I have one. Maybe the ales won't mind going along for the ride.

[Celiacbrew]

I don't think they were brewing in caves. I think they were storing the beer there.
The German beer institute has some information on the evolution of beer brewing in Germany. http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/history.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; You might find some of what you are looking for there.

[GuingesRock]

Yes, I knew that. Thanks for the info.

I've been reading this book this afternoon. It's really good book on brewing in general. Lots of real science (vs. pseudo science).

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Nice article on brewing Czech Pilsners (Urquell). http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/all ... _blog.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GuingesRock]

Recipe and label made. Ingredients ordered

I’m still working on a process (might edit this post a few times).

1) Whirlpool chill wort as usual, then splash (for some extra O2) into kegs with shortened dip tubes. Two sachets of 34/70 dry yeast in each keg at same time (like Nash does, chuck it in dry once there’s some wort in the keg and continue filling).

2) Put kegs in a keezer with ambient set at 10C for 9 days of primary fermentation with blow off tubes hooked to connectors on the gas posts.

3) Reset the keezer ambient temperature to 18C for 6 days for diacetyl rest plus finish up fermentation.

4) Remove blow off tubes, hook up CO2 and purge head space.

5) Crash to 1-2C and force carb at that temp. for 6 days.

6) Serve, bottle with Blichmann gun, or both (3 weeks grain to glass).

BeerLabel.jpg

[Celiacbrew]

http://www-control.eng.cam.ac.uk/Homepa ... l_1082.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've been looking for another paper I found available for free that was talking about fermentation temperatures for lagers but i can't find it. it was similar to this one with more temperatures and changes in temperature at different points.

[GuingesRock]

Thanks Mike.

I think there's an old BrewingTV episode about lagering in caves in the US. Might be worth checking out. I'm pretty sure it's based around some beer festival in Minnesota.

[GuingesRock]

The Brulosopher Guy thinks this will work. Check here and scroll to bottom: http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's my post on his site:

I like your thinking very much and your process. I’ve been doing some research and I am hoping to try to get away with an even simpler process. Would you let me know if you see any potential issues please? ..and Thanks!

I’m hoping to avoid ramping temperatures up and down gradually. My thought is that by adjusting the ambient temperature of the keezer, the beer will naturally take it’s time to change temperature, and I’m hoping that will be slow enough for the yeast. Final cold crashing can apparently be as fast as you like anyway because with this kind of method you are done with the yeast at that stage, since you are cold conditioning rather than lagering.

Grew Noonan’s book (making lager beer) is really good for the science behind lagering. There’s a really good link here also http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti ... ing_Lagers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here’s what I plan to try:

1) Whirlpool chill wort as usual down to about 18C (that’s as low as I can get with my tap water), then splash (for some extra O2) into kegs with dip tubes shortened by 1 ½”. Add two sachets of 34/70 dry yeast in each keg at same time (like a local commercial brewer I know does, chuck it in dry once there’s some wort in the keg and continue filling).

2) Put kegs in a keezer with ambient set at 9C for 9 days of primary fermentation with blow off tubes hooked to connectors on the gas posts.

3) Reset the keezer ambient temperature to 18C for 5 days for diacetyl rest plus finish up fermentation.

4) Remove blow off tubes, hook up CO2 and purge head space.

5) Crash to 1-2C and force carb at that temp. for 1 week.

6) Serve or bottle with Blichmann gun (3 weeks grain to glass).

Thanks,

Mark from Canada.

and his response:

I know of folks who have made lager beer simar to the way you plan to do it and it has worked well. Im pretty certain you won’t need blowoff tubes, but whatever works!

[GuingesRock]

Does anyone know about rousing yeast? If I am fermenting in cornys, it would be easy to rouse the yeast after the initial cold fermentation, to wake it up, by simply purging and pressurizing the keg a bit with C02, then inverting the keg a couple of times. I was wondering if I should make that part of my standard process, as an insurance, and to maximise attenuation, especially for bigger beers like dopplebocks.

[Celiacbrew]

Does anyone know about rousing yeast? If I am fermenting in cornys, it would be easy to rouse the yeast after the initial cold fermentation, to wake it up, by simply purging and pressurizing the keg a bit with C02, then inverting the keg a couple of times. I was wondering if I should make that part of my standard process, as an insurance, and to maximise attenuation, especially for bigger beers like dopplebocks.

If you're fermenting in your keg, will there be a lot of O2 in the headspace to begin with? Maybe you could just remove whatever you are using as your airlock and seal it up and swirl it gently.

Another thing to consider is whether rousing the yeast is necessary at all. Lager yeast don't flocculate all that well and they tend to stay in suspension on their own even at low temperatures. From my limited experience they don't look like they need waking up when they are done primary. It looks more like they need some melatonin to put them to sleep so they will fall out of solution in a timely fashion.

[GuingesRock]

That's useful. Thanks. 02 in the headspace, I don't think is a problem while fermentation is carrying on. cf. open fermentation, and my fermenting in the kettle. Once I'm done with the initial cold ferment of 7-10 days and the diacetyl rest/finish fermenting stage, I'll purge the head space and hook up CO2 for the temperature crash and force carb. If you don't hook up CO2 before you start chilling, negative pressure develops inside the keg as it cools down and it will suck in air. Until that point, I think I'll just leave the safety valve open to let the CO2 from fermentation escape, and not bother with blow off tubes.

[GuingesRock]

I’m still working on a process (might edit this post a few times).

1) Whirlpool chill wort as usual, then splash (for some extra O2) into kegs with shortened dip tubes. Three sachets of 34/70 dry yeast in each keg at same time (like Nash does, chuck it in dry once there’s some wort in the keg and continue filling).

2) Put kegs in a keezer with ambient set at 10C for 9 days of primary fermentation with keg safety valves open.

3) Reset the keezer ambient temperature to 18C for 6 days for diacetyl rest plus finish up fermentation.

4) Close keg safety valves, hook up CO2 and purge head space.

5) Crash to 1-2C and force carb at that temp. for 6 days.

6) Serve, bottle with Blichmann gun, or both (3 weeks grain to glass).

Making my first lager tonight … "Pilsner Myquell”. Process as above. The boil smells amazing.

[GuingesRock]

Pilsner Myquell. Brewed 12 Jan, today is the 29th. It's very very delicious

I put one of the kegs in the basement for a more normal lagering session, maybe 3 weeks down there, to compare, but I'm delighted with this rapid one. I'm anticipating it will clear soon, but I almost think I might prefer it this way.

[jtmwhyte]

Nice Mark! My Bohemian Pilsner recipe is set to go, but my fermentation chamber is in my shed which was most recently sitting at - 8 Celsius and I'm afraid I'd freeze the yeast, lol

[GasMD30]

Wow that was a quick brew!!

[GuingesRock]

The Big Commercial North American lagers are 19 - 21 days grain to glass.

[gm-]

The Big Commercial North American lagers are 19 - 21 days grain to glass.

But don't they ferment under pressure which expedites the process?

[GuingesRock]

Pilsner Myquell. Brewed 12 Jan, today is the 29th. It's very very delicious

I put one of the kegs in the basement for a more normal lagering session, maybe 3 weeks down there, to compare.

The basement arm of this study was brought to a premature end today. After 3 days down there, the basement keg has been swiftly brought back up again and put in the keezer.

[Tony L]

I have my lager bottle conditioning right now. Should be ready to try in a couple of weeks.

[GuingesRock]

My lagering technique worked out BTW. Gold medal and near perfect scores (as near as you can get) from a national judge.

[Juniper Hill]

My lagering technique worked out BTW. Gold medal and near perfect scores (as near as you can get) from a national judge.

Great job!

[LeafMan66_67]

Nicely done. Glad to see you are still brewing.

[Celiacbrew]

Nicely done mark. So what is your approach to lagers these days? I'm about to do one this afternoon.

[GAM]

Good stuff Mark. You will need a larger house for the medals and swag.

S

[GuingesRock]

Nicely done mark. So what is your approach to lagers these days? I'm about to do one this afternoon.

The lager was brewed way back when, same as above but oxygenated wort with oxygen from the tank and used liquid yeast with a starter (Wyeast # 2000).

Sorry about the delay in answering Mike. I'm still on my brewing hiatus, apart from the Beau's brew ..which got me interested again. I over did it a bit last year.