Phenolic, "Belgian" Infection. How Common?

[jason.loxton]

I fought a persistent wild yeast infection for a couple of years when I first got into all grain. Eliminated it when I switched over to kegging (and got rid of all my plastic gear), or so I thought... I've been on a brewing hiatus for a couple of years, but my ex girlfriend made an IPA last year (a Festa kit) using our gear that went phenolic. Then last month, I helped a friend do a Festa. They bottled themselves, so I didn't witness the sanitization, but I tried some of their finished product on the weekend and some (not all) bottles have that same damned "Belgian" infection.

Trying to figure out if there's a commonality. The ex's batch used the same cool vintage bottles we used to use pre-kegging, so that's the most likely common source for those ones, if there is one. But, my buddy used his own bottles and racking gear (but my carboy), which makes me wonder whether the carboy might actually be the source.

Seems like there's two hypotheses:
1. This is a very common infection and my earlier experiences and these two new ones are unrelated infections with independent causes
2. Some aspect of my equipment is a common source (which would pretty much have to be my carboys)

They're glass, and I gave them an overnight oxi soak and then Starsan, so that seems unlikely... Still... makes me wonder.

So, question: How many of you have had a strongly phenolic wild yeast infection? How common is this?

jason

[jacinthebox]

I have had older generation Conan yeast get that taste...but only when I fermented warm...like 70-72f. Not an infection but tasted very much like Belgium yeast

[GuingesRock]

Thanks for reminding me about the Belgian thing. Score sheets back from Beau's and I got marked down for my Belgian Tripel because of "a bit of chlorphenol character" one judge said it and the others chipped in and agreed, then one of them suggested politely that I remove chlorine from my water, which I do of course. I glossed over that as I tend to, didn't really pay any attention, but I think it was bugging me a bit, then it clicked when I read your post.

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/OffFlavorFlash.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jason.loxton]

Yeah, my issue was not chlorphenols. Not only did the issue pop up in two Festas (no water additions), but it clearly gets worse with time, and correlates with increased carbonation. (In my buddy's case, although I did the fermentation for him, I left him to bottle on his own, and he forgot to add priming sugar; the only carbonated bottles are the phenolic ones, where the critters are going after the unfermentable sugars.)

So: General feedback is that people are not widely reporting this issue???

Hmmm.... might be time for a full cleaning house on the fermentation side of my equipment.

[GuingesRock]

Do you have a spigot on the fermentor? They are famous for harboring infection. I broke a plastic one apart once when I started brewing and was horrified with the black sludge in there. Never used them again after that. The only thing that will properly sanitize any kind of tap is heat, which is one of the reasons why (apart from laziness) I ferment in the brew kettle. A 1 hour boil sanitizes the whole thing. Don't have to deal with scratches in plastic fermentors and all kinds of other worries and concerns.

[darciandjenn]

I've only ever had one or two bottles go "Belgian" on me and they were both gushers. Assumed it was due to poorly cleaned bottles.

Friends of mine (who will go nameless) were serving up a pretty wretched festa kit that had a funny Belgian characteristic (but it was supposed to be a pale ale) not too long ago. They tore apart their keg and found some kind of sludge which we figure was the source of the infection.

If you're only getting it in some bottles and not others, I'd remove those bottles from your rotation and pay special attention to sanitation next time.

I have a hard time believing that the infection would be in your glass carboy especially with the rigorous cleaning you've subjected it to.

Those are my 2₡

[jason.loxton]

Yeah, back when I was fighting it it was all in a set of old (gorgeous) vintage 650 ml Keiths and Labatt bottles that I used for everything (picked up a hundred of them super cheap). I went through multiple hoses, auto siphons, etc., bleach, hot water, and Star San as santitzers, etc., kept coming back. I settled on it either being the bottles (or possibly just our home as a result of bringing in the bottles). Once we switched to kegs, it stopped being an issue. These last two instances just kind of gave me shivers, as the bottles and bottling gear were separate in my buddy's case (just my carboy, used as primary and "secondary"). That infection was a bitch, and super disheartening, and I'd hate to have to fight it again. With my ex's last batch, she used the old bottles again. With my buddy, it's got to be either a coincidence (which is what I hope) or it's the carboy.

Maybe I'll make up a sugar water solution and see if I can get any fermentation in the a sanitized carboy as an experiment.