Advise on Group buy Conicals

A spot to talk general homebrew
Post Reply
User avatar
jimboh
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:46 pm
Name: jim
Location: Jeddore NS

Advise on Group buy Conicals

Post by jimboh » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:38 am

I just purchased one of these from a member and I have a question about the stock Quick Clean Ball Valves.
One of mine leaks and I haven't yet found a way to stop it.
What is the nut opposite the handle?
Is there supposed to be a spring in there to keep the ball central? Only there are none in mine and I have noticed that the ball does not sit centrally, Ie tighten the handle tight enough so it does not swing on its own and the ball is offset towards that nut. I cant see any other reason for the nut being there and I have checked all other (eg SS) versions of this ball valve and the nut is not there.

I will perhaps go butterfly but I wanted to do a brew today and do not have any tri-clamp caps so with a leaking valve, looks like a non starter. Any one have a contact email for the PEI guy? I wanted to ask him what other TC fittings he has, not sure if I should ask that sort of wuestion through ebay.

I posted a couple of comments on the Conical thread about these conicals but got no response. I would really appreciate if you other owners of the group buy conicals would have a look.
Drinking: Best Coast IPA, Old Speckled Hen Clone, Northern Lights (NG),
Belgian Saison, Blonde Ale, Toy Soldier Stout(OBK) and 14G batch of ESB.
Fermenting: Taking a rest!
Scheduled: Another 10G of Toy Soldier Stout.

User avatar
RubberToe
Award Winner 13
Award Winner 13
Posts: 3743
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:47 am
Name: Rob
Location: Dartmouth
Contact:

Re: Advise on Group buy Conicals

Post by RubberToe » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:02 pm

I can't check now since I'm at work, but from memory...

I think that nut / bolt / whatever is what makes it "quick clean". I think by removing it you can spray starsan or something up in there, etc. I could be wrong but that's what I've always thought.

Now, for the offset ball. These things come apart and I think the ball has a groove on the top where it slides into a pice attached to the handle. If it's not slid in all the way I think that could offset the ball. Try taking it completely apart and examining closer.

BTW I switched mine out for butterfly valves from the get go. These ball valves are probably ok but I wanted the piece of mind on the fermentation side. If you get your ball valves sorted out maybe you should give them a chance.

Good luck.
-Rob
Electric Brewery Build
On tap at RubberToe's:
Sometimes on a Sunday Belgian Dubbel, Oaked Old Ale, Ordinary Bitter

User avatar
Jimmy
Site Admin Award Winner
Site Admin Award Winner
Posts: 6984
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:35 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Re: Advise on Group buy Conicals

Post by Jimmy » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:23 pm

I don't know what ball valves come with the conical, but I'd be switching to butterfly as Rob mentioned.

My BREWHA came with triclover ball valves that can be quickly disassembled for cleaning (https://brewhaequipment.com/blogs/howto ... ball-valve), but I switched for butterfly valves anyway. Is that the style valve you have?

They work great, are quickly disassembled for cleaning, but I just felt more comfortable using butterfly valves on a fermenter.

User avatar
RubberToe
Award Winner 13
Award Winner 13
Posts: 3743
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:47 am
Name: Rob
Location: Dartmouth
Contact:

Re: Advise on Group buy Conicals

Post by RubberToe » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:44 pm

That's a different ball valve. These ones have a TC holding it together but it's offset.
Electric Brewery Build
On tap at RubberToe's:
Sometimes on a Sunday Belgian Dubbel, Oaked Old Ale, Ordinary Bitter

User avatar
RubberToe
Award Winner 13
Award Winner 13
Posts: 3743
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:47 am
Name: Rob
Location: Dartmouth
Contact:

Re: Advise on Group buy Conicals

Post by RubberToe » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:45 pm

PS - What makes ball valves unsanitary is the liquid / beer / wort gets trapped inside the ball when shut off. I think these valves allow you to drain and clean it if I'm not mistaken. BUT I could be completely wrong!
Electric Brewery Build
On tap at RubberToe's:
Sometimes on a Sunday Belgian Dubbel, Oaked Old Ale, Ordinary Bitter

User avatar
jimboh
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:46 pm
Name: jim
Location: Jeddore NS

Re: Advise on Group buy Conicals

Post by jimboh » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:20 pm

PS - What makes ball valves unsanitary is the liquid / beer / wort gets trapped inside the ball when shut off. I think these valves allow you to drain and clean it if I'm not mistaken. BUT I could be completely wrong!
Ah now a drain facility does makes some sense.

I think the Quick Clean is by virtue of being able to just remove a tri-clamp and the ball is removable and all can be soaked in starsan (my take on it).

I have been stripping it down and testing for a couple of hours now. My thoughts: the seal is made by compressing the tri-clamp junction which forces the ball against both front and back seal. The ball should sit centrally over the front and back seals. With the handle removed completely (to ensure the ball is not being forced out of central) I can get a seal. With the handle in place I can get the valve to seal if I leave out the tri-clamp gasket off, thus getting more of a squeeze on the ball.
It looks to me like the handle lug that slots into the ball is forcing the ball off center. A manufacturing tolerance on machining maybe? I found the lug did bind on the ball so I filed the lug edges some. I don't think the lug/slot in the ball needs to be an engineered fit, its only function is to turn the ball.

I will continue experimenting. I do prefer ball valve for the ability to control flow but at the end of the day if I cant get a good seal, I will go for butterflies.
Drinking: Best Coast IPA, Old Speckled Hen Clone, Northern Lights (NG),
Belgian Saison, Blonde Ale, Toy Soldier Stout(OBK) and 14G batch of ESB.
Fermenting: Taking a rest!
Scheduled: Another 10G of Toy Soldier Stout.

User avatar
jimboh
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:46 pm
Name: jim
Location: Jeddore NS

Re: Advise on Group buy Conicals

Post by jimboh » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:57 pm

Update: Just realised there are two ways to affect the stiffness of the handle.
1 how tight you do up the handle nut and
2 how tightly the ball is squeezed between the two seals.
With the handle nuts loose on both my valves, the good one, the one that does not leak is stiff to turn with the tri-clamp loosely tightened. The handle on the leaky valve is loose even with the tri clamp tightened hard.
At this extreme tightness it is not leaking but I'm not sure about over stressing the clamps.

Are there different thickness tri-clamp gaskets available? I don't suppose it is possible to buy new inner seals?
IF the seals are working properly then the tri-clamps seal on the valve joint is not actually doing anything is it?
I suppose I could just use a thin flat gasket. any thoughts? It would be nice if i could fix this one.
Drinking: Best Coast IPA, Old Speckled Hen Clone, Northern Lights (NG),
Belgian Saison, Blonde Ale, Toy Soldier Stout(OBK) and 14G batch of ESB.
Fermenting: Taking a rest!
Scheduled: Another 10G of Toy Soldier Stout.

User avatar
jimboh
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:46 pm
Name: jim
Location: Jeddore NS

Re: Advise on Group buy Conicals

Post by jimboh » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:56 pm

Update: Swapped body halves between two valves. Leaky valve is now tighter and not leaking with only moderate tightening of Tri-clamp and the good valve is a little looser but still sealing.
Will have to mark the valves so they always go together this way.
Drinking: Best Coast IPA, Old Speckled Hen Clone, Northern Lights (NG),
Belgian Saison, Blonde Ale, Toy Soldier Stout(OBK) and 14G batch of ESB.
Fermenting: Taking a rest!
Scheduled: Another 10G of Toy Soldier Stout.

elreplica
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:36 am
Name: Don
Location: South Shore, NS

Re: Advise on Group buy Conicals

Post by elreplica » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:22 pm

Yup. Put the lime in the coconut and shake it all up...šŸ˜³
At Bat: several Czech Pils
On Deck: Cream Ale
In the Hole: Kolsch
Clean Up: Tall Ships Ale clones
On tap: Propeller Pils, Festa Cream Ale

Post Reply

Return to ā€œGeneral Homebrew Discussionā€

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot] and 22 guests