Just HOW fast can you produce a good beer?

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Buccaneer
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Just HOW fast can you produce a good beer?

Post by Buccaneer » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:04 pm

Brewing, fermenting, and then aging a beer to get it to a drinkable state (ie, no ridiculous green and/or off-flavours) typically takes me about 3 months. I've had some lagers take much longer (upwards of 6 months). On a couple occasions, I was drinking in about half that (a recent saison was good after about 6 weeks and a recent APA was 4 weeks). I've kind of just accepted that that's going to be the way of things and I have the gear to allow me to have stuff aging for the requisite time while the current taps are full.

I've been following Keith's recent escapades and it looks like he turned around his Funktown APA in 10 days. I suspect other breweries are doing the same, so my question is - how is this possible?

I have no doubt that pitching rates affect this a lot. I've been doubling up when using dry yeasts as of late and the last 3 beers for which I've done this had shorter grain-to-glass times. When using a liquid yeast, I've started making starters to build up. Again, higher pitch rates.

But what else is going on to cut that time? Are people fiddling with fermentation temperatures? Do the larger batch sizes have something to do with it? Extra nutrients (which I've tried and only made a small difference)? Finings? Filtering?

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Re: Just HOW fast can you produce a good beer?

Post by KB1138 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:36 pm

Pitch rates are a big part of it. Also, force carbing in a keg cuts out the whole bottle conditioning time. I'd say I'm typically 10-14 days grain to glass, depending in style and how much I procrastinate. I've turned beer around in as little as 6 days
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Re: Just HOW fast can you produce a good beer?

Post by Jimmy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:36 pm

I don't think there's any "secret", just a few things that can alter turnaround time:


-Proper pitch rates
-Lower ABV will typically finish quicker
-No dry hopping will shorten the turnaround time
....and some people are just packaging green beer

With that being said, 2-3 weeks is a pretty normal turnaround for a standard ale.

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Re: Just HOW fast can you produce a good beer?

Post by RubberToe » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:45 pm

There are some important factors to consider in order to produce good beer quickly. They include:

- Temperature control.
- Match your temp profile with your chosen yeast. Beer style is a factor here.
- Choose a yeast that can get the job done in your desired timeframe.
- Pitch a healthy amount of yeast. Oxygenate, especially if using liquid yeast.

This may not be the best example but I can make a delicious lager in 3 weeks:
-Brew and cool to 10C.
-Pitch 2 packs (per 5 gal) of W-34/70, hydrated.
-Hold at 10C for 1 week.
-Ramp to 20C over 5 days or so, hold there until fermentation is complete. This is also your D-rest.
-Ramp back down to 2-3C over a few days, hold there for a few days.
-Keg.

Some yeasts start slower than others. Lager yeasts generally do but that's probably more of a temperature factor. I find US-05 is a bit of a slow starter if your temp is dialed in.

Another example using an English yeast like S-04 or Ringwood.
-Brew, cool to 18C, pitch.
-Let it ramp to 21C or so.
-Fermentation should be done in less than a week.
-Cold crash, keg.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that from my experience it's a combo of these things. I've gone grain to glass in 1-2 weeks for some styles, 3 weeks for lagers. Ironically I find it takes me longer to brew an Altbier than a lager.
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Re: Just HOW fast can you produce a good beer?

Post by Celiacbrew » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:02 pm

Fining speeds things up a lot. A cold keg with gelatine = 2-3 weeks in keg. Yeast taste pretty nasty. Coat them in hop oils and they taste decent so with hoppy styles they aren’t as noticeable as with a pale lager.

Rehydrating dry yeast makes a big difference in how quickly they start, which I think should affect how much stuff they make to clean up.

I find my second ferment with a yeast is usually faster than the first. The third is usually how far I take it but I would say it is faster than the second pitch as well. I might be pitching larger pitches on my 2nd and 3rd go with a yeast.

If your fermentation’s generally take a long time, zinc could help speed things up, especially if your yeast aren’t happy to begin with.
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Re: Just HOW fast can you produce a good beer?

Post by jacinthebox » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:30 pm

I can brew, ferment, package and carb a "lite" (4% abv) beer in 10 days if I had to. Light wheat beers are easiest...but can also do a cream ale/cali common if I filter.

pitch a healthy cell count of a neutral ale yeast
ferment at 18c.
use gelatin in the keg during cold crash if you need it clear (or filter before carbing)
I use a speed carbing method when I need it on tap...takes an hour using my pump and carb stone set up.
I've also done sours in 10 days
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Re: Just HOW fast can you produce a good beer?

Post by Buccaneer » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:38 pm

Jimmy wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:36 pm
....and some people are just packaging green beer
I wondered about this. :) I'm my own worst critic and I find I'm pretty sensitive to the typical green flavours in my own beers.
RubberToe wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:45 pm
This may not be the best example but I can make a delicious lager in 3 weeks:
-Brew and cool to 10C.
-Pitch 2 packs (per 5 gal) of W-34/70, hydrated.
-Hold at 10C for 1 week.
-Ramp to 20C over 5 days or so, hold there until fermentation is complete. This is also your D-rest.
-Ramp back down to 2-3C over a few days, hold there for a few days.
-Keg.
This sounds similar to the Brulosophy quick lager method. I've done this twice - one time it worked really well, although it was about 4 weeks, and the other time it took a couple of months
RubberToe wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:45 pm
Some yeasts start slower than others. Lager yeasts generally do but that's probably more of a temperature factor. I find US-05 is a bit of a slow starter if your temp is dialed in.

Another example using an English yeast like S-04 or Ringwood.
-Brew, cool to 18C, pitch.
-Let it ramp to 21C or so.
-Fermentation should be done in less than a week.
-Cold crash, keg.
I tend to follow a similar routine. I do tend to use US-05 a lot; that, and Danstar Nottingham. Having said that, the last beer I made with US-05 was 4 weeks grain-to-glass and that was with 2 weeks of bottle carbonation.
Celiacbrew wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:02 pm
Fining speeds things up a lot. A cold keg with gelatine = 2-3 weeks in keg. Yeast taste pretty nasty. Coat them in hop oils and they taste decent so with hoppy styles they aren’t as noticeable as with a pale lager.
I've never used finings, but I've been considering giving it a try. Perhaps the next batch...
Celiacbrew wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:02 pm
Rehydrating dry yeast makes a big difference in how quickly they start, which I think should affect how much stuff they make to clean up.

I find my second ferment with a yeast is usually faster than the first. The third is usually how far I take it but I would say it is faster than the second pitch as well. I might be pitching larger pitches on my 2nd and 3rd go with a yeast.

If your fermentation’s generally take a long time, zinc could help speed things up, especially if your yeast aren’t happy to begin with.
I always rehydrate dry yeast.

I've never tried re-using yeast - mostly because I tend not to brew two styles in a row that could use the same yeast. I should give that a try, too.

I've read lots about perhaps needing zinc, which is why I started using servomyces. Sometimes I've noticed a difference and other times not.

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Re: Just HOW fast can you produce a good beer?

Post by Celiacbrew » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:38 pm

Zinc is one of those things that fresh healthy yeast with good vitality probably have enough of but if you are reviving an almost dead package of liquid yeast or you are on a few generations the zinc supply might be depleted and the yeast don’t have a source of more.
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Re: Just HOW fast can you produce a good beer?

Post by jason.loxton » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:08 pm

Fermentation schedule for pro brewers is around 10-14 days pitch to packaging/serving on an ale and about three weeks for a middle of the road lager. The vast majority of the delicious world-class beers you drink follow that schedule (and are not green).

For example:

Ales: http://discussions.probrewer.com/showth ... frame-ques
Lagers: http://discussions.probrewer.com/showth ... r-Schedule

Filtering and centrifuges can cut down on time, but even non-filtering craft breweries follow that timeline. Because they can't afford to keep beer in fermenter or brite (less production = less money), they've got to get things out in time to stay solvent. The big difference is they pay really close attention to fermentation, starting with healthy, well-flocculating yeast pitched at the right rate, with sufficient O2, stable and compatible temperatures, followed by a solid cold crash.

Yeast health and pitching rate seem to be our biggest issue.

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