Did I miss the mark or is this normal

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ailken
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Did I miss the mark or is this normal

Post by ailken » Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:54 am

Hey folks,

Trying to potentially troubleshoot a mash that I think may have not converted well.
BTW, this is my very first attempt at an AG, so be gentle, LOL

I made a mash that I used about 30% 6 row, 30% flaked barley and some other misc flaked grains to get a total of 7.5kg
Then, I added that to 25L of 157F strike water leaving me with a mash temp of 149F.
Wrapped and insulated it well and stirred it every 30 minutes, left if rest for a total of 90 minutes and ended at 142F.

I anticipated that I would get an approx SG of 1.070.
But I only had a pre-boil SG of 1.055

Any ideas where I could have gone wrong here?
Is this about average and to be expected?
Maybe did I go too light on the malt?

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ConanTroutman
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Re: Did I miss the mark or is this normal

Post by ConanTroutman » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:43 pm

Definitely can't say for certain, at least based on that info it could be a few things.

1. Water, most beers are fine with plain Halifax/Dartmouth city water if you're new and not wanting to dive into water chemistry yet, however if you're somewhere with hard water or a lower pr higher pH you might run into conversion issues. The mash needs to be within a certain range for the enzymes to convert efficiently.

2. Grain crush, if your grain is poorly crushed you may not be getting the most out of your 6 row or the flaked adjuncts it's also there to convert.

3. Flaked grains, some cereal grains aren't readily usable in a mash just by adding them with a malted grain and need to undergo a "cereal mash" to gelatinize them. Without going into the nitty gritty, this just makes the starches usable. Some flaked grains are pre-cooked or are gelatinzed some other way in the process, but not knowing what you're using it's possible some of your flaked grains needed a separate mash.

4. Mash temp, if you started at 149f and ended at 142f you're still getting conversion, but the two enzymes have different ranges. You're definitely still getting conversion at 142f, but your gravity could be the result of several things rather than just one, so something to consider.

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joe_r_harvie
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Re: Did I miss the mark or is this normal

Post by joe_r_harvie » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:46 pm

Along with all Conan's comments, what temperature was the pre-boil when you tested the gravity. Assuming wort was warm, did you apply a temperature correction? It can make a big difference.
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ailken
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Re: Did I miss the mark or is this normal

Post by ailken » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:03 am

Thanks folks, I really appreciate the input.

You know, I really felt that the grain should have been ground finer. It was all cracked, but nowhere near sand or cornmeal. I personally felt it should have been a bit finer grind but wasn't sure how fine to go.

Also, I'm betting your right on about the flaked stuff, I wasn't sure how to do the cereal mash and a friend said "nah, don't worry about it"... I think I should have worried, LOL. Flakes weren't ground either, I had a feeling this was going to also be detrimental. The flaked stuff didn't really go like porridge, it just sort of kept its shape. I'm on well water that's just about neutral pH and only borderline hard.

I was using a refractometer for the SG so wasn't concerned about the temp, I think that's ok.

In the next batch I'll:
1. Grind a bit finer, but how fine is the best?
2. Cereal mash the unmalted grains (need to learn)
3. Double check the SG with hydrometer.
4. Let it mash a bit longer, how low though? Assuming I'm not fermenting on the grain though, unless there's any benefit to that.

Thanks again!

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Re: Did I miss the mark or is this normal

Post by KB1138 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:18 am

1. Grind a bit finer, but how fine is the best?

That's going to be a matter of trial and error. It's a question of your mash vessel and filtration system. Too coarse can lead to poor efficiency, as you've learned, and too fine can clog everything up and make lautering a near impossibility. It's something everyone has to play with and get dialed in for themselves.

2. Cereal mash the unmalted grains (need to learn)

I'm pretty sure Palmer covers that in How to Brew, but it's really only needed for large amounts of non diastatic adjuncts. If you're using a lot of corn or rice you'll need it, but wheat, oats, or barley should be fine.

3. Double check the SG with hydrometer.

Yes, double and triple check. I spot check my gravity with a refractometer throughout the mash and boil, but then confirm after the boil with a hydrometer

4. Let it mash a bit longer, how low though? Assuming I'm not fermenting on the grain though, unless there's any benefit to that.

60 minutes is considered standard, but I've let it go 8 hours before without issue. As long as you can maintain mash temp and prevent and microbes souring it you're fine. You don't want to ferment on the grains, unless you plan on running it through a still afterwards.
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ailken
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Re: Did I miss the mark or is this normal

Post by ailken » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:16 am

Awesome, thanks.

Grinding - I'll certainly be playing around with that a bit. I'll look for some videos on other people's level of grind with BIAB setups. I figured that too fine will just be a hot mess and didn't want to have to buy hulls to help it out.

Cereal - I was thinking that it would be helpful for all the flaked and unmalted grains to really open them up, I'll definitely be reviewing this too.

SG - yeah, that was dumb of me, been brewing long enough to know better. I've been burned before just relying on the refractometer when it was off. Will remember to not do that again.

How long - that's what I was worried about, nasty microbes. Figured that if I left it on the grain I'd end up with some sour beer. But running it in a still, that would make some funny tasting beer!

Thanks!

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Re: Did I miss the mark or is this normal

Post by jkdunbar » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:39 am

Remember to stir the wart before you take your readings. The sugars often times gravitate to the bottom of the kettle and when you're taking your readings from the top you won't necessarily have an accurate reading.

To test this out try taking a reading from the top, then take a sample from the drain spout at the bottom, and see what the difference is. Then stir your wart variously for 30 seconds, then take a sample from the top to see if there's a difference.

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Re: Did I miss the mark or is this normal

Post by Tim Gregory » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:37 pm

I'm not terribly concerned about maximizing efficiency. The difference is only gonna be a buck or two for a 5 gallon batch. IMO it's better to just figure out what your efficiency is going to be with your system and try to keep it consistent.

ailken
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Re: Did I miss the mark or is this normal

Post by ailken » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:23 pm

Good point about stirring it up well.
I sampled for SG during the rest.
At 30 minutes it was about 1.025, then at 60 minutes I moved the bag around a bit and it was at 1.045 and at 90 minutes, it read 1.055. I didn't give it a stir after taking the bag out, was just trying to stay dry and keep from making a mess in the kitchen, LOL I suppose it's a real possibility that all the readings were low because of sugar stratification, good point.

Not too concerned about being efficient at this point, I really need some convincing that this is somewhat normal for newb's and that with a bit more practice, I should be able to get those numbers up a bit. You're right though, for the cost of grain, it's cheap compared to my time. If I get similar results next time, I'll be able to get a better idea where I am going to be going forward.

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Re: Did I miss the mark or is this normal

Post by GAM » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:29 pm

Did you cool your sample?

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ailken
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Re: Did I miss the mark or is this normal

Post by ailken » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:05 pm

Was on a refractometer temp should have been good.

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