All Grain Set-ups: Electric or Gas?

[benwedge]

I'm thinking about setting up for all-grain very soon. I'm going to end up with an electric set up, and I'll weigh pros and cons that I've identified. I encourage everyone to add their considerations below, and to provide extra insight. Ultimately I may compile everyone's suggestions into a bit of an FAQ.

I'm going electric because I don't have a place to brew outside, my apartment is not well-ventilated, I have no place to store propane, lugging propane tanks around to be filled without a car is the opposite of fun, and I don't need to find space to store the burner and stand. I've estimated that if a 5000W element is going full-out for 2.5 hours and electricity is $0.15/kWh, it'll cost $1.88/brew. Can anyone with experience doing all grain confirm this, or help me with the estimates? I've no idea what propane would cost for one brew. Also, if we get Time of Use billing in Nova Scotia, the cost of brewing on weekends would be around $0.90/batch, though I still don't know how that compares to propane.

Electric:
Pros:

• No dangerous fumes
• With 5000W going full-out for 2.5 hours, cost for a brew is $1.87
• No burner and stand to store
• No tank to store and refill

Cons:

• Apparently it's harder to control the temperature
• Doesn't boil as quickly

Propane
Pros:

• Quicker boil = shorter brew time
• Better temperature control (so I've heard)
• Great for large batches
• Boil-overs don't destroy your kitchen

Cons:

• Fumes = need lots of ventilation
• Must store the tank securely
• Tank needs to be taken to stores and re-filled
• The burner and stand can consume a lot of space in storage

Like I said, I've no experience in this, it's information I've gleaned from reading other posts, but I'm hoping to make this the go-to thread for deciding what's best for your lifestyle. If anyone has corrections to my list or further insight on the pros/cons of both, I'd love to hear it before I spend my money.

[mr x]

I am all electric. I'd say the cost of electricity is probably better than propane, but I switched off propane at the same time I went from 5 to 10 gallon batches, so I don't have any data to back that up. maybe search some of the bigger homebrew boards.

It's not harder to control temperature, so long as you have a temperature control, which is pretty much required for the boil kettle, unless you have perfect sizing for the amount of heat you plan to use. You can get away without temp control on the HLT, just unplug the power when you hit your target temp.

As far as the boil-overs go, use defoaming agent. Problem solved.

[akr71]

I use propane, but another huge pro to an electric setup (IMO) is indoor brewing during foul weather and winter.

A pro for propane is the ease and availability of the equipment, making it easier to get into all-grain. I get 2 or 3 batches out of my propane tank ($20-$25 to fill) depending on how much grilling I do inbetween batches.

[moxie]

I am REALLY trying to convert my kettle to an e-kettle... In fact, I am sort of forcing it. I have some of the components already, PID, some other miscellaneous items, but I have been advised to STAY CLEAR of the old school electrical panel in my current house. I am renting, so adding a new dedicated brewing panel is simply not an option. (I doesn't fit into my budget at all, either) My house has two 4 pronged 240v(I assume) outlets, but I've been told that they just jerry rigged the newer outlets in to make it appear safe, much like the rest of my old North End house! I have a newer sub panel but it's limited to 120v.

E-Brewing:

More cost/energy efficient
Flexibility to brew indoors in all seasons (Some of the grizzled propane veterans would laugh this one off)
No storage/maintenance of burners and tanks

I am probably going to have to wait until I move to a new place before I can convert the kettle. Might be a while, we're not going to move until we buy a place.

[derek]

I use propane because I can't use electric (see "Off-grid kegerator )

I guarantee you that electric is cheaper (NS does actually have time-of-use billing - but you have to be a homeowner with electric heating, afaik). I used to have a quick-disconnect for the household propane for the barbecue on the deck. I should have got it reconnected to the front wall of my garage when we had a new propane install last month, then it would be somewhat cheaper (plus I wouldn't have to worry about running out of gas...)

Indoor brewing could be both a pro and a con: do not forget that a _lot_ of moisture is being put into the air when you brew. That's not as unhealthy as CO poisoning, but if you get mold, you won't be happy. If I had the electricity, I'd wire my garage for sufficient power to brew there. Also, boilovers or not, I can't brew without making a mess. My wife has been very supportive, but that would stop dead if I messed up her (new) kitchen (though I think she's ready to put her foot down on the expenses - I mentioned I'd been over to Robert's yesterday and she said "You didn't buy anything else, did you?" - I didn't, honest). I haven't found brewing in the garage to be a problem comfort-wise in Winter - though there was a significant ice slick after the last session

I agree with Robert that it shouldn't be harder to control temperature (I think electricity should actually be better).

[moxie]

I think the difference in temperature control is that there is more of a lag after you adjust your temp with electric that isn't there with propane... You may get a more exact and stable temp with electric, but it will take some time to adjust up and down. That is my understanding, at least.

[benwedge]

I guarantee you that electric is cheaper (NS does actually have time-of-use billing - but you have to be a homeowner with electric heating, afaik).

That is correct. I meant more for us non-electric heat apartment dwellers. Anyway, thanks for all of the info. I *definitely* need to think about ventilating for the steam, but I think a couple of open windows would be fine. We don't have a range hood, which would be a boon.

[Garak]

You should check to see if your apartment is on 3 phase power or not. Pull out your range, unplug and measure the voltage between the two hot legs with a multi-meter. Should be somewhere between 208 and 250v. If its close to 208 your on 3 phase and you will only get about 80% of the rated power from your element, assuming its rated for 240v.

Some of the limitations of electric can be over come by using more power. Put two 4000watt elements in the kettle and it will heat up a lot faster and respond to temperature changes faster.

I wish I could find more cartridge heating elements like the ones x found. I bought the last one the ebay seller had. 4700watt @ 240v, 3606watt @ 208v. I'd like to have two more of them. They make for a super slick looking heat stick

[mr x]

Derek makes a good point about the moisture. I use a good quality (quiet) blower and a plastic storage bin lid for a hood.

The electric is fairly fast AFAIAC, not much more lag than the propane.

[John G]

I'm currently using propane, but soon switching to electric. Propane is a PITA, lugging propane tanks around, running out mid brew, brewing outdoors in crappy weather and having to pay $30+ for fuel for a handful of brew sessions. It's also noisier (my propane burner sounds like a jet engine when cranked to get up to boil). I'll be using my e-brewery indoors in a 3 keg HERMS single tier setup with ventilation on a Brutus 10 type stand, with the option to drag it out back to brew outdoors when I want to. I can also set up my HLT with a timer to have warm up to dough in temperature for when I wake up on brew day.

I think electric requires a bit of thinking ahead of time to get geared up (safety, choosing controllers, getting the right size burner for your needs, etc.) but I believe (hope) that once built it will be a better fit for me each brew day.

[mr x]

I wish I could find more cartridge heating elements like the ones x found. I bought the last one the ebay seller had. 4700watt @ 240v, 3606watt @ 208v. I'd like to have two more of them. They make for a super slick looking heat stick

Keep yours eyes open for them, as will I. Took me over a year to find those. it might even be worth contacting the manufacturer and asking about the pricing.

[mr x]

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[jason.loxton]

You can do ghetto electric for nothing. I upgraded last year to a propane burner and 48 l aluminum broad-based pot from Rona. I was carrying it downstairs from my deck to run my immersion chiller, which needless to say is a giant pain when full of boiling wort (there's no outside tap, and the water pressure is insufficient to run from the kitchen). One day out of curiosity I decided to see how long it would take to boil a 10 gallon batch on the stove. Since it straddles two burners (this would not work with anything keggle-like), set to max it turned out to take no more time than propane (or not much more, anyhow). I even needed to turn it down to avoid boil over once it got going! So, now I mostly brew inside. Will probably move outside as the weather warms just because it will be so nice, but for now, I am a stove top brewer again!

[moxie]

I wish that strategy would work for me, but my pot is the wrong shape to straddle two burners. I think a 120v heatstick might be a good option for me to use in tandem with the stovetop, but I would not feel confident building one myself.

[RubberToe]

I'm designing a 2 tier, 2 vessel, one pump, electric brew rig for my basement. I have my BK and MT, going to build the stand from wood. The element will be PID controlled and I haven't designed my panel yet. It should be simple with one element and one pump. I want to be brewing on it by June or so.

-Rob

[maltster]

My first all grain was a 5 gallon batch split between two pots on a coleman camp stove. Now I'm all electric. I have an old electric stove in my basement to heat the strike and sparge water and I brew in an electric keggle with a 4500w element.

I will say steam/moisture can be a problem indoors. On my second batch, in the middle of a boil, I noticed water dripping from above. The steam was condensing on the cold water pipes and dripping all over the floor. Luckily it's in my furnace room so no harm done. Now I use an old range hood and exhaust the steam outside but i still get some steam condensing on the range hood and dripping back into the keggle.