The Grainfather

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SFR709
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Re: The Grainfather

Post by SFR709 » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:16 am

Thanks Ian, among other things I'll definitely be taking a look at my check valve.

Cheers,

Scott

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by lil'wheaty » Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:21 pm

I'll add too that I also let my grains sit over top of the GF and let them continually drip for a decent amount of time after sparging has finished, which also acts as a somewhat cover while it gets up to boil. I usually let the mash sit over top until the temperature reaches around 208F, then I move it to a bucket and stir the GF occasionally as it reaches 212F. Also, when I'm setting my initial mash temperature before doughing in I tend to set it around 6-8F above my desired mash temp, depending on the size of the grain bill. After staring at the temperature controller during multiple initial mashes like a mad man, I often found it drops below your set temp slightly more than it stays at it or even (rarely) overshoots it....which leads me to always set my controller 1-2F above my desired rest temp, including setting my mash out temp to 169F to achieve a 167F desired temp. Works like a charm and has given me consistent and reproducible results. Plus, when I wasn't quite getting the efficiency I wanted I found that using Brewer's Friend's advanced water calculator in conjunction with Halifax Water's profile (printout) allowed me to get the exact acid additions (gypsum, lactic acid) I needed for a pH ~ 5.2-5.3. This alone bumped up my efficiency an average of 5% with the GF brews! The first time I used the calculations and paid attention to the acid additions I was able to confirm it with a buddy's pH meter, but then after confirming the pH accuracy of two brews I stopped double-checking because the results were so bang on.

-Ian

P.S. Not trying to plug Brewer's Friend, I actually only use the free minimal version for calculations! Haha

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by elreplica » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:06 am

Just found this post on an Irish site...new Grainfather control boxes pre-order... 136.25 euros - puts them at $200 CDN. I'm wondering when NG will start as I'm interested. What do the rest of you folks think?

http://www.geterbrewed.ie/grainfather-c ... ntrol-box/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At Bat: several Czech Pils
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In the Hole: Kolsch
Clean Up: Tall Ships Ale clones
On tap: Propeller Pils, Festa Cream Ale

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by SFR709 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:59 pm

Because Fuck! Haha, I was stirring pretty good as I was building up to start my boil and knocked the pump filter off with my stir stick, I Jerry rigged this and it actually worked!
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Re: The Grainfather

Post by lil'wheaty » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:05 pm

I always knock that little shithead off, haha. Haven't had any repercussions though, even when making a clean czech pilsner - took silver in Saskatoon!

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by SFR709 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:54 pm

Awesome that's good to know!

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by lil'wheaty » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:06 pm

I've also used steel wire to secure the removable rubber end as well, that's definitely popped off while whirlpooling. I don't mess around when whirlpooling.

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by SFR709 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:56 am

I had the misfortune of having my Grainfather's heating element quit on me, but I dropped my old one off one day and Dave at Everwood got me another the next day, you just can't beat his customer service!
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Re: The Grainfather

Post by IanWatson » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:30 pm

Does anyone know if/when the Grainfather will come with the new control box? Starting to think about getting one, but figure it's worth getting it with the new controller.

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by gm- » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:24 am

It will come with the new control box, but they will raise the price accordingly, so it will not really matter if you get an old model + new box or a new unit with the new box.

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by elreplica » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:38 am

IanWatson wrote:Does anyone know if/when the Grainfather will come with the new control box? Starting to think about getting one, but figure it's worth getting it with the new controller.
Yes, the price will be adjusted accordingly. They're due February here and if I recall, $199.
At Bat: several Czech Pils
On Deck: Cream Ale
In the Hole: Kolsch
Clean Up: Tall Ships Ale clones
On tap: Propeller Pils, Festa Cream Ale

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by sucanushie » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:54 am

Picked up a Grainfather with the new controller.

Can't wait to give this a go. Anyone have any good tips/lessons learned?

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by BAbrewing » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:52 am

sucanushie wrote:Picked up a Grainfather with the new controller.

Can't wait to give this a go. Anyone have any good tips/lessons learned?
Buy a hop spider

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by MitchK » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:47 pm

I haven't found the hop spider necessary myself even with DIPA recipes involving 9 oz or so of kettle hops. I have had to remove the ball and spring safety mechanism on one brew because it's a common source of clogs (in the recirc arm), and the worst slowdown of my knockout I ever had was actually on a zero hops brew - the filter on the pump intake seems to rely on getting coated in hop gunk so that the hop gunk itself becomes a filter of sorts so without any hops the pump got a little bogged down with all the protein break (wheat heavy berliner weisse grist)

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by lil'wheaty » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:54 pm

Picked up my new (pre-ordered from NG) module yesterday! Can't wait to give her a go this week when making a NEIPA

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by lil'wheaty » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:50 am

Always keep your recirc arm valve closed (especially if you've removed the ball/spring safety mechanism) when changing attachments or before starting the pump up. That way you don't accidentally hit the roof with hot liquid/wort at any point, plus it helps to build up pump pressure before opening it up. Seems to keep my pump from sucking up air and taking forever to get a steady stream. Also, don't turn the bluetooth off on your phone/tablet at any time during your brew session - gives you an error message and switches to manual mode. Your module will still perform all the steps and alarms to let you know when to do the stuff you programmed into your session, but your phone won't let you skip steps, alter session details while brewing, etc.

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Decoction Mash Question

Post by padresrandy » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:33 am

Currently using a traditional mash tun cooler doing this. Any suggestions of equipment purchase to best facilitate this process...and of course cost is always a factor.

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The Grainfather

Post by SFR709 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm

Hey fellas, anyone looking to use your Grainfather chiller with another set up I figured out a few things today. 1) the ball valve the chiller hooks to is British Standard Thread or BST and here we use NPT. 2) if you're looking for an adapter to convert the BST to NPT you won't be able to find it easily, Dave didn't have it (but had some info), home depot, and the first two places in burnside I tried didn't either. But Parson's Hydraulics in the corner of the plaza on 55 Akerley did, the fitting runs about $10. Might save someone from running around a bit.


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Re: Decoction Mash Question

Post by lil'wheaty » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:41 pm

I've done lots of decoction mashes with the grainfather and the only additional pieces of equipment needed were a 1L measuring cup, an extra 6L-8L pot, and a deep ladle (the kind that's bent 90 degrees). For the thickest portion of the mash I just stop/remove the recirc arm, pull the grains up out of the body of the grainfather and rest it on top, then take from the thickest portion. For thinner portions I leave the grains down and take from there. If you don't have good gloves and are worried about splashing when you add the portions back in, just pull the grains up before adding the decoction(s) back.

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The Grainfather

Post by SFR709 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:27 pm

But I wasn't talking about doing decoction mashes, I just have a propane Blichmann set up as well and wanted to use my Grainfather chiller with that as well.

Edit: sorry I just noticed you were referencing a post above.


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Grainfather question re: large grain bill efficiency

Post by Beert » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:35 am

Hello,
I’ve done 10 brews on the Grainfather at this point. The recipe I’ve done most often uses 6.4 kg of grain and I’ve always come pretty close to the expected gravity of ~ 1.060-62
My last brew I used 8.4 kg of grain. The recipe and procedure were otherwise the same. The expected OG was 1.077 but didn’t even come close at 65.
I’m wondering if this is the correct range of efficiency loss to be expected with the increased grain bill.
Thanks for any tips or input!!

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by lil'wheaty » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:58 am

Hmm, I do find it drops, but usually within the range of 5-10% efficiency at the most. I ran the numbers based on a 23L batch and you're losing out on around 15-17% efficiency, so I'm thinking maybe something or a combination of other things are at play. Do both grists for those recipes have only grains? Different adjuncts? Different temperatures? Different grain bill make-ups (more or less specialty/character grains, sugars, etc.)? Were the water/grain ratios the same or different? Was the crush the same? Do you correct for pH, and if so did they differ? Just a few thoughts so I can help out a bit more directly.

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by Beert » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:59 pm

Hi Ian, thanks for getting with me.
I was expecting some drop in efficiency but you have confirmed that what I ended up with is out of the range.
The regular recipe is as follows:
The water volumes are based on a 24.5L fermenter volume.
20.8L mash 60min@67 deg, mashout 10min@75deg
13.8L sparge@77deg
4kg Pale
.6kg Vienna
.6kg Munich
.6kg Crystal 30
.6kg Carapils
The larger bill was the same except there was 6kg of Pale for a total of 8.4kg. The water volumes were also based on a 24.5L fermenter volume.
22.8L mash 60min@68 deg, mashout 10 min@75deg
13.4L sparge@77deg.
You’ll note I increased the mash temp to 68. Reason being the extra 2kg of Pale was a mistake and I wasn’t sure if I wanted such a big ABV (expected ABV that is) my intention was to bring it down a tiny bit, but even with the higher mash temp the OG should have been around 77.

I’m not sure about the water\mash thickness, I just plug the numbers into the Grainfather calculator so I assume they are same ratio(?), but I do recall the ‘porridge’ seemed thicker.
Sparge time for the regular batch takes about 10 minutes and was closer to 20 for the big batch. I wouldn’t think the increased 2kg of Pale would double the sparge time so this leads me to think the porridge was thicker.
One thing re: the crush; I use a variable speed drill to run my mill, usually I just pull the trigger halfway and let the mill do it’s thing. This time I may have run the drill a bit slower than usual but not
drastically slower if at all. (But if anything wouldn’t this create a crush that would sparge quicker I.e. less flour).
The grains were purchased at the same time as the grains I used for a regular batch the day before that turned out perfectly.
I haven’t delved into pH stuff yet or anything do do with water conditioning but the source of my water has been the same for all brews.
The preboil volume may have been a bit low, but less than a litre.
I didn’t bother to take a preboil gravity.
The post boil volume may have been a touch low but ultimately the fermenter voulume as correct.
Can’t think of anything else that could be relevant but let me know if you think of anything.
Thanks!

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by lil'wheaty » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:25 pm

Sounds like we can assume the crush was negligible as the roller spacing didn't change and I've never had speed be an issue. The grains were also of good quality if they did the job the day before.
Your liquor-to-grist ratios were a bit different, but at 3.25 vs. 2.71 you were still in a good range and shouldn't have noticed an efficiency difference (you were correct in noticing the thicker mash and longer sparging time with the larger grain bill batch!).
The only thing I can immediately come up with is the difference the extra kilograms of pale malt would've made to the water chemistry. Without adding salts that would help acifiy things (variations of sulfates) or a form of acid (lactic acid, acidulated malt, etc.), the balance of pale malt vs. specialty malts can have a significant influence. You want your mash pH to be around 5.2-5.6 (I would argue more 5.2-5.4, with 5.3 giving me the best results), and pale malt does little to nothing to bring your pH down. Not sure if you use Halifax Municipality water like me, but that usually has a pH of around 7.3 - the added specialty malts and salt/acid additions help to bring that down. A stout/porter grain bill with lots of dark malts will need little or no acidification to land a pH in the 5.2-5.4 range, and sometimes needs a buffer (usually calcium bicarbonate or sodium bicarbonate) to keep the pH from going too low. However, a Czech pilsner (mine only uses pilsner malt and instead relies on decoctions to add colour/complexity) needs a hefty dose of lactic acid to get it into a workable pH.
So long story short, I think your original recipe had enough percentage of darker grains to get your mash pH <5.6, but your dilution of the bigger batch with more pale malt would've caused a higher mash pH. If your mash pH is too high, it directly affects the enzymes and their ability to get things converted. I usually use Brewer's Friend's water calculator as my preferred tool and it usually gets me within my desired pH +/- 0.1 . I usually only put calcium sulfate (gypsum) and calcium chloride in my beers, and on the rare occasion I'm making a viciously dark beer I'll need a touch of calcium bicarbonate. My lighter to medium brews never get down to a low enough pH, so a dose of lactic acid does the trick. Once you balance the ratio of your gypsum and calcium chloride to get the bitter forward vs. malt forward profile you're looking for, it gets to be second nature!

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Re: The Grainfather

Post by Beert » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:50 am

Hi Ian, thanks again for pondering this with me. I haven’t been brewing long and as I mentioned previously I haven’t added water chemistry knowledge to my brewing toolbox (yet), so the potential of too high a pH level wouldn’t have crossed my mind. My homebrew ‘mission statement’ at this early stage includes being consistent and therefore being able to predict results, that’s why I am so curious about this batch.
I’m not on Halifax water, It’s a groundwater source.
Something that makes me question the high pH scenario is that I have done SMaSH brews with basically the same Pale as well as Pilsner with the same grain crush and the same water and have hit the numbers as expected.
In the name of consistency/predictability what I should do is brew the recipe again and compare results (although I’ll have to wait until next week because my fermenters are full :lol: ).
The examples of working with pH and info you gave me make me want to run out and get a pH meter! It’s practically inevitable! Also, it was either when I was contemplating buying the GF, or shortly after I bought it, I remember reading your post(s) about your experience with it and tips/tricks and it helped a lot, thanks for that too!
Cheers. Bert.

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