The Grainfather
- MitchK
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Re: The Grainfather
Strike water is heating up now, sparge water heating using my sansaire immersion circulator in a cambro. Grains are milled. Doing the brulosophy hop test bitter using cascade for the initial run because MW+B is closed and that's the only recipe I have the specialty grains for already
It looks like it took a little under 40 minutes to get from my extremely cold (49f) ground water to the mash temp of 152 - this is with 15 litres of mash water. I'm just letting it sit at the moment while waiting for friends to arrive that wanted to see the process.
It looks like it took a little under 40 minutes to get from my extremely cold (49f) ground water to the mash temp of 152 - this is with 15 litres of mash water. I'm just letting it sit at the moment while waiting for friends to arrive that wanted to see the process.
- jtmwhyte
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Re: The Grainfather
You may want to exceed 152 to account for Temp drop when adding the grain
Nova Prime Taproom
Tap 1: Festa Brew Scotch Ale
Tap 2:
"Fill with mingled cream and amber,
I will drain that glass again.
Such hilarious visions clamber
Through the chamber of my brain -
Quaintest thoughts - queerist fancies
Come to life and fade away;
What care I how time advances?
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Tap 1: Festa Brew Scotch Ale
Tap 2:
"Fill with mingled cream and amber,
I will drain that glass again.
Such hilarious visions clamber
Through the chamber of my brain -
Quaintest thoughts - queerist fancies
Come to life and fade away;
What care I how time advances?
I am drinking ale today." ~ Poe
- MitchK
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Re: The Grainfather
I thought that too and then looked it up and the answer was basically since your mash is actively heated you can just let it drop and it will recover. I'm mid boil now and here are my notes. The lost 20 minutes between hitting mash temp and doughing in were me waiting for a friend to show up.
49 degree strike water. 15 litres turned on at 118 pm
Up to mash temp by 2 pm
Dough in at 218
Ramp to mash out from 152 to 170 started at 318 pm
Mash out by 335
Boiling at 423 pm
Some of these times might be longer than reality because I walked away and may not have noticed, and I left the basket on draining for the ramp up to boil, probably would have been faster if I'd taken it off as soon as it stopped dripping then slapped the lid on for the ramp.
49 degree strike water. 15 litres turned on at 118 pm
Up to mash temp by 2 pm
Dough in at 218
Ramp to mash out from 152 to 170 started at 318 pm
Mash out by 335
Boiling at 423 pm
Some of these times might be longer than reality because I walked away and may not have noticed, and I left the basket on draining for the ramp up to boil, probably would have been faster if I'd taken it off as soon as it stopped dripping then slapped the lid on for the ramp.
- MitchK
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Re: The Grainfather
Chilling into the fermenter now.
Overall about 3:30 from dough in to halfway through chilling on a single infusion 60 minute mash with a 10 minute hop stand after the boil for this recipe. I would say the 4 hour timeframe including cleaning is a realistic timeframe to shoot for if you clean as you go once you're familiar with the system. You could probably go even faster when you get into which recipes really NEED a full hour mash, full hour boil, etc. I could probably slam out a 30 minute mash and 20 minute boil APA on a weeknight no problem.
The boil wasn't super vigorous looking but I don't think that is actually going to cause any problems as long as you aren't expecting a metric ton of boiloff. I forgot to do a pre-boil efficiency check so I'll only have total efficiency to report once I have it all chilled and in the fermenter (and bother to sanitize my hydrometer and flask). I was worried my grain crush was too fine looking at it compared to an all-grain kit ingredient bag I had pre-crushed but no stuck sparge here. I'm guessing ideal crush is somewhere in between 3 vessel /w false bottom and brew in a bag.
Off topic PS: The Cascade hops I picked up at everwood smell amazing.
UPDATE: 75% efficiency on the first batch. Thought it was 71% at first but I forgot that I collected 20 litres not 19.
Overall about 3:30 from dough in to halfway through chilling on a single infusion 60 minute mash with a 10 minute hop stand after the boil for this recipe. I would say the 4 hour timeframe including cleaning is a realistic timeframe to shoot for if you clean as you go once you're familiar with the system. You could probably go even faster when you get into which recipes really NEED a full hour mash, full hour boil, etc. I could probably slam out a 30 minute mash and 20 minute boil APA on a weeknight no problem.
The boil wasn't super vigorous looking but I don't think that is actually going to cause any problems as long as you aren't expecting a metric ton of boiloff. I forgot to do a pre-boil efficiency check so I'll only have total efficiency to report once I have it all chilled and in the fermenter (and bother to sanitize my hydrometer and flask). I was worried my grain crush was too fine looking at it compared to an all-grain kit ingredient bag I had pre-crushed but no stuck sparge here. I'm guessing ideal crush is somewhere in between 3 vessel /w false bottom and brew in a bag.
Off topic PS: The Cascade hops I picked up at everwood smell amazing.
UPDATE: 75% efficiency on the first batch. Thought it was 71% at first but I forgot that I collected 20 litres not 19.
- GAM
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Re: The Grainfather
What is the total out put? I think, just by looking 20-25l max.
S
S
- MitchK
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Re: The Grainfather
The calculations on the site if you go with their water amount assume you're doing 23 litre (6 gallon) batches.
I shot for 20 litres into fermenter because I have no interest in bottle conditioning an extra gallon. (just shaved 3 litres off of their calculator's suggested sparge water)
I shot for 20 litres into fermenter because I have no interest in bottle conditioning an extra gallon. (just shaved 3 litres off of their calculator's suggested sparge water)
- jtmwhyte
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Re: The Grainfather
That time frame is pretty good for running 120v.
Nova Prime Taproom
Tap 1: Festa Brew Scotch Ale
Tap 2:
"Fill with mingled cream and amber,
I will drain that glass again.
Such hilarious visions clamber
Through the chamber of my brain -
Quaintest thoughts - queerist fancies
Come to life and fade away;
What care I how time advances?
I am drinking ale today." ~ Poe
Tap 1: Festa Brew Scotch Ale
Tap 2:
"Fill with mingled cream and amber,
I will drain that glass again.
Such hilarious visions clamber
Through the chamber of my brain -
Quaintest thoughts - queerist fancies
Come to life and fade away;
What care I how time advances?
I am drinking ale today." ~ Poe
- MitchK
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Re: The Grainfather
Yeah, so far I am 100% happy with my purchase. I even got the hang of the metal screens, they slide In and out just fine as long as they aren't bone dry.
very little of that time is "active" too. Lots of free time to be drinking beer, playing video games, cleaning as you go, bottling/kegging previous batches, sanitizing fermenters, etc.
very little of that time is "active" too. Lots of free time to be drinking beer, playing video games, cleaning as you go, bottling/kegging previous batches, sanitizing fermenters, etc.
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Re: The Grainfather
Did you do the 'cooler-style step mash method of adding enough hot water to bring it up..., basically doing part of your sparge ahead of time'?
I bought a Grainfather a month ago to do test batches of Tea concentrates for my business. (needed controlled temperatures, recirc, pump and chill). I find that if insert perforated plate on an angle and tip it horizontal as it reaches the bottom it slides in easy and the silicone ring will stay in place.
As it is never needed evenings and weekends ... I have used it for extract brew and am almost ready for first all grain (still remodeling brewroom and researching AG ). Hoping to simplify process (and having a 5700 watt coffee brewer with a tap) initial heat up is instant but was wondering about the possibility of just adding hot water when temp needs to be raised or doing a no sparge, adding 200 F water to full volume and to raising temp to around 175F for final mash step. ?
I bought a Grainfather a month ago to do test batches of Tea concentrates for my business. (needed controlled temperatures, recirc, pump and chill). I find that if insert perforated plate on an angle and tip it horizontal as it reaches the bottom it slides in easy and the silicone ring will stay in place.
As it is never needed evenings and weekends ... I have used it for extract brew and am almost ready for first all grain (still remodeling brewroom and researching AG ). Hoping to simplify process (and having a 5700 watt coffee brewer with a tap) initial heat up is instant but was wondering about the possibility of just adding hot water when temp needs to be raised or doing a no sparge, adding 200 F water to full volume and to raising temp to around 175F for final mash step. ?
- MitchK
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Re: The Grainfather
I didn't try a step mash this go around of any kind, just a single infusion mash at 152 followed by heating to 168 for mash out. Honestly I could probably skip mash out in the future since you pull the grain out of the wort then immediately start sparging.
- MitchK
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Re: The Grainfather
Just did a small beer for the session exchange on the grainfather for my second brew. Still can't believe how easy it makes the whole beer thing.
- Celiacbrew
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Re: The Grainfather
Just did my first brew with my new Grainfather. Overall I am very happy with my purchase. There are some issues that will need to be worked out. I need insulation to get a proper boil and proper ramp times. You need to have the lid on and the pump going or else the ramp times are really slow. I clogged my check valve with hop debris with stops the pump from pumping. Kind of annoying. Beer smiths profile for the Grainfather is way off, I will get the numbers sorted after my next brew day and post up the corrected profile in this thread. Overall my brew day was way easier than my kettle and cooler set up. I really like the little things with the system like how there aren't any valves to forget to close and the pump is self priming so it doesn't require you to fight with a hot pump head trying to get the air out.
Mitch what did you do for insulation on your GF?
Mitch what did you do for insulation on your GF?
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Mike E.
Mike E.
- MitchK
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Re: The Grainfather
I haven't insulated it at all. I've been using it in my kitchen though. I plan to get the graincoat when it comes out in Canada so that I can save a bit of power and ramp faster.
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Re: The Grainfather
Curious as to the quality of beer produced by the Grainfather. I brewed all grain years ago under the auspices of a brew vint in Ontario, and have done several types of extracts and partials over the years. I'm looking to go all grain with a Grainfather in the near future but have yet to see any reviews of its products as I have for many other brews. All feedback on any types of beer is muchly appreciated.
At Bat: several Czech Pils
On Deck: Cream Ale
In the Hole: Kolsch
Clean Up: Tall Ships Ale clones
On tap: Propeller Pils, Festa Cream Ale
On Deck: Cream Ale
In the Hole: Kolsch
Clean Up: Tall Ships Ale clones
On tap: Propeller Pils, Festa Cream Ale
- GAM
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Re: The Grainfather
Mitchell and I brewed on Sunday and in 5 hours had chilled wort in a fermenter. He tells me that cleaning is simply running PBW or equiv through and rinsing.
The sparge water was the only piece that you need to work out, Pot on stove or something. There is soft ware to figure out volumes etc.
Sandy
The sparge water was the only piece that you need to work out, Pot on stove or something. There is soft ware to figure out volumes etc.
Sandy
- MitchK
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Re: The Grainfather
Worth noting that the 5 hours included gathering water and weighing/milling our grains too, which a lot of people do the night before or whatever... Probably could've also saved myself some cleaning time if I had cleaned the grain basket while we were boiling instead of just socializing and drinking
- spickup
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Re: The Grainfather
The grainfather site has a mash and sparge water calculator, but it's not clear whether the volumes are for 30 or 60 min boils. Anybody get their volumes dialed in yet?
- MitchK
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Re: The Grainfather
I've been doing a 60 minute boil using the calculator and it's been bang on.
- Celiacbrew
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Re: The Grainfather
I've got my volumes dialed into beersmith if you are interested. If not my boil off rate is around 2 litres an hour.
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Mike E.
Mike E.
- Celiacbrew
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Re: The Grainfather
Just noticed this request for reviews. The Grainfather makes excellent wort. it rexirculates the wort which filters it pretty well so you end up with a pretty clear beer going into your fermentor. The hops will also act as a second filter when you transfer from kettle to fermentor. So very clear wort goes into your fermentor. It for several batches under my belt and can't speak highly enough of the system. I will probably post a more complete review at some point cut in the meantime if you have questions about the system let me know.elreplica wrote:Curious as to the quality of beer produced by the Grainfather. I brewed all grain years ago under the auspices of a brew vint in Ontario, and have done several types of extracts and partials over the years. I'm looking to go all grain with a Grainfather in the near future but have yet to see any reviews of its products as I have for many other brews. All feedback on any types of beer is muchly appreciated.
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Mike E.
Mike E.
- spickup
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Re: The Grainfather
That's great. From what I've read it seems like it's been a real challenge to dial in the profile in beersmith for the GF, which seems odd. Are you using beersmith for your water volumes exclusively? If so, would you mind sending me your profile?Celiacbrew wrote:I've got my volumes dialed into beersmith if you are interested. If not my boil off rate is around 2 litres an hour.
Just did our first brew with Gf tonight and unfortunately smashed the hygrometer before we could take a reading.
Did a simple smash with 3oz hops on flameout and I couldn't believe how clear the beer was going into the fermenter.
- McGruff
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Re: The Grainfather
When we downsize to a smaller house sometime in the future, the first thing I will buy is a Grainfather. I made a Pilsner on friday and I clean as I go and it was still an 8 hr day. Also, I have to wait for my fridge to cool down the wort to 7 C to pitch my yeast and that is the next day. Another 2 hrs. I make 46 L at a time, but still, I will enjoy brewing on this system. Thanks for all of the feedback and I hope they don't stop selling them by the time I buy mine.
- Celiacbrew
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Re: The Grainfather
The problem is twofold. The Grainfather profile should be for a single vessel but they went for separate mash tun and kettle. That causes the deadspace to double up. Also the grain absorption is set too high because we drain our grains way more than with a cooler. I don't remember exactly all the things I changed so I will have to write out all the settings. I will try to get to it this afternoon.spickup wrote:
That's great. From what I've read it seems like it's been a real challenge to dial in the profile in beersmith for the GF, which seems odd. Are you using beersmith for your water volumes exclusively? If so, would you mind sending me your profile?
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Mike E.
Mike E.
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Re: The Grainfather
start with the grainfather profile.
mash lauter tun volume 28l
mashtun weight 9.3
specific heat .12
lauter tun deadspace - 0 - there isnt really any deadspace in your lauter tun because it is your kettle so 100% makes it into the kettle.
adjust mash volume for deadspace - doesnt matter what you select here.
top up water 0
calc boil vol automatically - off
boil volume 28l
boil time 60m
boil off 2l
use boil off as an hourly rate - on but doesnt matter unless you go shorter or longer on the boil.
total boil off 2l
evaporation rate - 7.1%hr
post boil volume 26l
cooling shrinkage 4%
cooling shrinkage 1.04l
loss to trub and chiller - 3.5 this is where we pick up the dead space in our calc
top up water 0
batch volume 23l
fermentor loss 1l
bottling volume 22l
then under preferences/advanced grain absorption .8 instead of 0.96
If this comes out with too big of a sparge water addition then you will want to play with the grain absorption a little. .8 worked for me but I leave a little in the grain. If you go for a full drain you might want to try .7 or if you squished your grain to get every last drop out then go with the biab grain absorption number which is the next line down in the options window, I think .58 or something like that. If you tilt the grainfather to get all of the wort out of it that you can, you will need to adjust the loss to trub and chiller volume. I have it at 3.5L because I don't tilt and I shut the pump off when the liquid level is just above the filter. With tilting I would guess you get an extra 2ltres out. If that is the case you can set the loss to trub and chiller to 1.5 or 2 (depending on how much hop debris is usually in your kettle) and then turn on the calculate boil volume automatically. With that on a 23l batch is the perfect size for the grainfather. If you dont go that route and you are ending up with too much wort into the fermentor you can adjust the batch volume/boil volume/post boil volume manually. Just note that if you are leaving less wort in the grainfather your brewhouse efficiency will be much higher so you will want to move that up. 78-80 is a number I see people throw around online but a lot of people just guess their measurements instead actually of calculating it out with accurate measurements across the board.
oh and the reason I shut off the calc boil volume automatically is that it says I would have to start with 29 litres but that doesnt work . I could have also changed the batch volume down to make it fit.
mash lauter tun volume 28l
mashtun weight 9.3
specific heat .12
lauter tun deadspace - 0 - there isnt really any deadspace in your lauter tun because it is your kettle so 100% makes it into the kettle.
adjust mash volume for deadspace - doesnt matter what you select here.
top up water 0
calc boil vol automatically - off
boil volume 28l
boil time 60m
boil off 2l
use boil off as an hourly rate - on but doesnt matter unless you go shorter or longer on the boil.
total boil off 2l
evaporation rate - 7.1%hr
post boil volume 26l
cooling shrinkage 4%
cooling shrinkage 1.04l
loss to trub and chiller - 3.5 this is where we pick up the dead space in our calc
top up water 0
batch volume 23l
fermentor loss 1l
bottling volume 22l
then under preferences/advanced grain absorption .8 instead of 0.96
If this comes out with too big of a sparge water addition then you will want to play with the grain absorption a little. .8 worked for me but I leave a little in the grain. If you go for a full drain you might want to try .7 or if you squished your grain to get every last drop out then go with the biab grain absorption number which is the next line down in the options window, I think .58 or something like that. If you tilt the grainfather to get all of the wort out of it that you can, you will need to adjust the loss to trub and chiller volume. I have it at 3.5L because I don't tilt and I shut the pump off when the liquid level is just above the filter. With tilting I would guess you get an extra 2ltres out. If that is the case you can set the loss to trub and chiller to 1.5 or 2 (depending on how much hop debris is usually in your kettle) and then turn on the calculate boil volume automatically. With that on a 23l batch is the perfect size for the grainfather. If you dont go that route and you are ending up with too much wort into the fermentor you can adjust the batch volume/boil volume/post boil volume manually. Just note that if you are leaving less wort in the grainfather your brewhouse efficiency will be much higher so you will want to move that up. 78-80 is a number I see people throw around online but a lot of people just guess their measurements instead actually of calculating it out with accurate measurements across the board.
oh and the reason I shut off the calc boil volume automatically is that it says I would have to start with 29 litres but that doesnt work . I could have also changed the batch volume down to make it fit.
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Mike E.
Mike E.
- spickup
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Re: The Grainfather
That's awesome.. Thanks for the detailed write up! I'll try it out and let you know how it works out.
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