Bottle Conditioning

[GuingesRock]

Someone posted a video about Maine Beer Company which I watched with interest. They bottle condition their beer, because they say it tastes better. I’ve been wondering about that ever since. It agrees with my beliefs about beer needing to be on some yeast, and if secondary fermentation is happening in the bottle, then it is real ale also. I thought the yeast would likely clear out any oxygen in the bottle (is that true?), and might help the beer last longer ???

Being a bear of very simple brain. I’m looking for a very simple way of doing this. I was looking for some kind of sugar pill that I could throw one in each bottle.

Do you need to worry about getting air in the beer when you bottle (CO2 purging etc.) or does the yeast use up any oxygen?

How do people do this? Tony got me thinking about this today again. He’s bottle conditioning his lagers.

[LeafMan66_67]

Sugar pill is Cooper's carb tab, available at Noble Grape.

[GuingesRock]

Thanks Derek, I thought I'd heard them mentioned on here, but when I Googled or looked at the online stores I couldn't find them, just coopers carbonation drops. I might pick some up when I go to NG next weekend.

Edit: Ah Ha! drops = tablets ...same thing.

[mthibodeau]

I have a black ipa in the secondary now, and its a 6gal batch. 5 will be kegged and the rest put into bottles and carbed using those drops. I will do a side by side compare in a few weeks and let you know

[GuingesRock]

Great! I'm thinking of doing the same kind of thing. I do double batches and could keg 5 gal and bottle the rest with drops in my 1L SS growlers/drink bottles and throw them in the basement. That way I have more keezer space for more styles on tap.

[Ruby]

I've been finding that I get far more predictable carbonation with bottle conditioning. I've started conditioning everything i brew in the Belgian style in the bottle. They taste more authentic to me, and I like the little bit of yeast at the bottom of the bottle. I still tend to do English and North American in the keg, but I find that the mouthfeel is more creamy than the extra couple of litres that i bottle when there's too much to fit in the keg.

But bottles definately are one royal pain in the arse.

[GuingesRock]

I've been finding that I get far more predictable carbonation with bottle conditioning. I've started conditioning everything i brew in the Belgian style in the bottle. They taste more authentic to me, and I like the little bit of yeast at the bottom of the bottle. I still tend to do English and North American in the keg, but I find that the mouthfeel is more creamy than the extra couple of litres that i bottle when there's too much to fit in the keg.

But bottles definately are one royal pain in the arse.

Ruby, is the bottle conditioned "more creamy" or visa versa?

[Ruby]

I find the keg carbonation gives smaller bubbles, and the head seems tighter and thicker. The bottle conditioning I find gives a sharper carbonation with visible bubbles. I prefer the sharper mouthfeel. Especially with Belgian styles.

[ottiscan]

Another video by Local Brew features the Funky Bow Brewery. It was interesting to hear that they only condition their kegs with yeast.

I kegged a batch of 60 minute IPA yesterday and added half the normal amount of bottling sugar and charged the keg with 15 lbs of Co2 to seal it up.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

[amartin]

I bottle condition all of mine. I just follow the way they tell beginners, add .75 cups of sugar/5 gallons, and stir it in just before bottling. I will sometimes adjust it downwards though for styles that don't require as much carbonation. I forget the deal with yeasts eating small amounts of oxygen. I think when it's just fermenting simple sugars it doesn't need oxygen, but if there's malt extract (I think the carb tabs are a mix of both) then it does. Either way, you should probably still be careful. Purging individual bottles with CO2 is probably overkill, but if you wanted to do a few for comps it might not be a bad idea. I might do it if I had access to gas.

[GuingesRock]

I was interested to hear Ruby saying the force carbed beer was smoother and softer, "more creamy", "smaller bubbles", "tighter and thicker head". I believe him, but that's the first time I heard that. The opposite is often stated in real ale propaganda, and they are trying to put down force carbing. I'd rather believe Ruby, who sounds like he has no agenda, than an organization with a massive agenda.

[Tony L]

I actually prefer the bottle conditioned brews and am seriously considering selling all my co2 equipment including my kegs and kegerator.

But for the meantime, I'll hold on to everything for now.

[Ladd]

I've never used the carbonation drops but have read a lot of mixed reviews about them, mainly about their consistency.

I bottle everything I brew but only out of necessity. To carbonate I weigh out my sugar based on volume I'm bottling and the co2 volume I want, mix it with a bit of water and boil it briefly. I gently add that into my carboy just as I start racking my finished beer over from the primary, I don't bother to cool it down the beer will do that quite quickly. I bottle using a racking cane and tubing, I sanitize my tubing and make sure it goes all the way the bottom of the bottle so that it is submerged as I fill the bottle which minimizes splashing which could introduce oxygen. I've been doing it that way for many years and have good and predictable results.

[Jimmy]

I don't notice a difference between bottle conditioned and force carbed beer...not saying there isn't one, but I don't notice it if there is.

[dean2k]

I don't notice a difference between bottle conditioned and force carbed beer...not saying there isn't one, but I don't notice it if there is.

I'm with Jimmy here. I've only been kegging my last couple of brews, and even then I still bottle some because it's only a 2.5gal keg. But I haven't noticed any difference.

Unless I'm missing something here that "bottle conditioning" refers to some other/extra/different practice than regular old bottling.

[GuingesRock]

I think it's a fancy name for regular old bottling using priming sugar, and not force carbing the beer and bottling that.

[Ruby]

I was interested to hear Ruby saying the force carbed beer was smoother and softer, "more creamy", "smaller bubbles", "tighter and thicker head". I believe him, but that's the first time I heard that. The opposite is often stated in real ale propaganda, and they are trying to put down force carbing. I'd rather believe Ruby, who sounds like he has no agenda, than an organization with a massive agenda.

I may just be screwing up my force carbing! I would never profess to being an expert, and it's difficult to screw up bottle conditioning. As long as there's a small amount of healthy yeast in there, they do all the work for you.

I've been thinking about trying the keg conditioning thing to see if I get better results from the keg.

[spuds]

I find the bottle conditioned beers give a creamier mouthfeel. But not enough to bottle everything. Me likes the keggerator.

[Celiacbrew]

I wonder if different experiences with this has to do with the time it takes things to settle out sediment and lipids?

https://www.ibd.org.uk/cms/file/311" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/Resources%5 ... Manual.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Both of these mention small bubble size being a foam stability promoter. Fewer and smaller particles in suspension would give smaller bubbles and therefore more stable and creamy head. So if you put your beer in a keg you will be drinking it within a week or so, if it is in a bottle it is likely closer to two weeks or more. That extra time would let the particles picked up during the transfer settle back out. That might partially explain the effect especially if some of those particles are lipids.

Another difference could be pour speed. The bottles will tend to be poured more slowly which will result in smaller bubbles. The keg will tend to be more vigorous with bigger bubbles which is good for head forming but not as good for stability. I wonder if we slowed down our keg pours a PSI or maybe two if we would see a difference in foam stability/creaminess?

[the-mailman]

Although I have only made three kegs worth so far, bottling the remainder each time, I have found that the kegged beer is better. The first keg I made is long gone but the beer I bottled from the keg is just now beginning to taste as good as the keg did. The beer ages and matures better and faster in bulk.

I find the same thing happens when I make wine. It ages better in bulk in the carboy for 6 months to a year than it does in individual bottles. The final bottles have more consistent characteristics.

Of course this is only my own tastes and preferences and as I make more beer it may change.

[GuingesRock]

I wonder if different experiences with this has to do with the time it takes things to settle out sediment and lipids?

https://www.ibd.org.uk/cms/file/311" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/Resources%5 ... Manual.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Both of these mention small bubble size being a foam stability promoter. Fewer and smaller particles in suspension would give smaller bubbles and therefore more stable and creamy head. So if you put your beer in a keg you will be drinking it within a week or so, if it is in a bottle it is likely closer to two weeks or more. That extra time would let the particles picked up during the transfer settle back out. That might partially explain the effect especially if some of those particles are lipids.

Another difference could be pour speed. The bottles will tend to be poured more slowly which will result in smaller bubbles. The keg will tend to be more vigorous with bigger bubbles which is good for head forming but not as good for stability. I wonder if we slowed down our keg pours a PSI or maybe two if we would see a difference in foam stability/creaminess?

Some good thoughts.

[voltage]

I gently add that (sugar) into my carboy just as I start racking my finished beer over from the primary

That's what I do as well with my bulk priming. Sugar/water mix 1st in the primary hot then rack the beer out of the carboy right on top of it in my case. Afterwards a gentle stir in the bucket before bottling. I think this gives a better consistency from when I used to add the sugar at the end of racking. My only issue I have so far with bulk priming seems to be head retention. 3 Weeks at room temp as a minimum seems to help build more head as well, vs the possible two weeks before going in the fridge.

[mackay85]

I've only bottled and I am using 450ml Grolsch bottles. I'm finding that so far I'm not getting good consistency with my beer. There are a few questions I was hoping someone could answer on here:

1. Is there a rule of thumb for how much priming sugar to use per gallon? I've been doing 6gal all grain batches.
2. Once bottling is done, is there a preferred temperature to store them at, and is there a preferred duration - 2wks as opposed to 3wks?

Thanks

[mumblecrunch]

I've only bottled and I am using 450ml Grolsch bottles. I'm finding that so far I'm not getting good consistency with my beer. There are a few questions I was hoping someone could answer on here:

1. Is there a rule of thumb for how much priming sugar to use per gallon? I've been doing 6gal all grain batches.
2. Once bottling is done, is there a preferred temperature to store them at, and is there a preferred duration - 2wks as opposed to 3wks?

I rack to a bottling bucket to determine my final volume, then use a priming calculator like the one built into BeerSmith or this one in concert with a style guideline. I would prefer to rack onto the priming sugar mix, but after overcarbing two batches (one that I dry hopped, one that I had an obscene amount of trub in the primary), knowing my final volume has become more important to me. I guess I could rack once for volume and then onto the priming sugar, but that seems risky.

Once bottled, I try to keep them around 21°C for a day or two especially if they've sat in the primary for a while. Then I just try to keep them at room temperature (which is 16/17°C in my house most of the year). In general, I find the beer is really quite drinkable at 2 weeks, but markedly better at 3.