What all grain system would you buy?

wgould · Post by **wgould** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:57 pm

I've done a bunch of festabrews now, as well as a bunch of extracts. I'm feeling itchy to move up to the all grain big leagues, but I don't want to half ass it. I'd like to buy what I need up front, so that I can get good results and not have to spend all of my time cleaning. I've been looking at a bunch of different options, and I'd love to hear what the experts think.

If you were starting from scratch again, with only basic buckets and carboys, what system would you buy to make future you happier, save time on clean up and get repeatable results?

Options that I'm aware of:

Brew-boss -ebiab -> About $1100 USD and includes a tablet app that gives you voice prompts - the programmer in me loves this and I could see me adding more arduino parts to make the system even easier. Downside is that the system doesn't look as purdy as some of the others.
Brewha Biac -> A bank busting $3907 USD, but it looks like a very easy to use, and maintain system. Nice that this is truly an all in one and includes cooling and fermenting.
Picobrew zymatic -> Too easy if that's possible? The small batch size of 3 gallons really makes this a no go, I'd like to be able to do 5 - 10 gallon batches.
Blichmann Breweasy -> $3200 CAD for the 20 Gal gas unit. Looks nice. I've heard some folks complain about the G2 kettles. I'd need to set up a vent hood in my garage, but I should probably do that anyway. There's an electrical version that I could buy too. Anyone feel strongly one way or the other for gas vs. electric?

That's it...love to hear your thoughts before I drop a bunch of cash on one of these suckers. Any that I've missed?

GuingesRock · Post by **GuingesRock** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:06 pm

Brewha, because it has fermentation temperature control. Jimmy has one. It's very similar to the setup I made for myself for about $300

GuingesRock · Post by **GuingesRock** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:18 pm

Some discussions on this site

http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... lit=brewha" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... 50#p103663" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... t=breweasy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

wgould · Post by **wgould** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:32 pm

Thanks Mark, I quite like the look of the brewha biac, and I've read Jimmy's posts and viewed his and the other videos out there on it. At nearly 4 times the price of the brew-boss though, I want to make sure it's the one to get. You can get a lot of kettles and conicals for 4k

CorneliusAlphonse · Post by **CorneliusAlphonse** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:25 pm

Honestly I am perfectly happy fermenting in carboys. It is easy enough to manage temp in them, easy to clean properly. Electric biab seems the way to go for brewing.and you can get it all set up for very cheap.

GuingesRock · Post by **GuingesRock** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:43 pm

CorneliusAlphonse wrote:Honestly I am perfectly happy fermenting in carboys. It is easy enough to manage temp in them, easy to clean properly. Electric biab seems the way to go for brewing.and you can get it all set up for very cheap.

Agreed.

Becky · Post by **Becky** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:12 pm

wgould wrote:Thanks Mark, I quite like the look of the brewha biac, and I've read Jimmy's posts and viewed his and the other videos out there on it. At nearly 4 times the price of the brew-boss though, I want to make sure it's the one to get. You can get a lot of kettles and conicals for 4k

I don't think Jimmy's Brewha system cost $4k. I don't remember exactly the price range, but I don't think it was that high. I could be very wrong, or he fibbed to me so I wouldn't kick him outta the house.

amartin · Post by **amartin** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:34 pm

If you're committed to spending a bunch of money on a fancy setup, go for it, but don't think you need to to make great all grain beer. A lot of us are still mashing in coolers or pots, boiling on the stove (if smaller batches) or gas burners, and then fermenting in buckets or carboys.

As for the cleaning, I don't think you're getting out of that no matter how much you spend.

CorneliusAlphonse · Post by **CorneliusAlphonse** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:38 pm

amartin wrote:
As for the cleaning, I don't think you're getting out of that no matter how much you spend.

^

You can save a bit of work by just filling vessels to the brim and letting em soak, but you still gotta clean rinse n sanitize most parts.

wgould · Post by **wgould** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:39 pm

Thanks folks! I'm not committed to spending as much as I possibly can, I'll leave that to the govt. Heyyy-ooo! I've just heard a lot of folks say, I've spent X amount of money on my system over time, if I had just started with "system Y" from the beginning, I'd have saved Z dollars and been so much happier.

I think I'm leaning toward a BIAB system for the economy and ease of use. Would building your own electric BIAB system cost much less than the 1k Brew Boss?

wgould · Post by **wgould** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:46 pm

Becky wrote:
wgould wrote:Thanks Mark, I quite like the look of the brewha biac, and I've read Jimmy's posts and viewed his and the other videos out there on it. At nearly 4 times the price of the brew-boss though, I want to make sure it's the one to get. You can get a lot of kettles and conicals for 4k
I don't think Jimmy's Brewha system cost $4k. I don't remember exactly the price range, but I don't think it was that high. I could be very wrong, or he fibbed to me so I wouldn't kick him outta the house.

LOL, I may need to sleep garage for a while if I go with the Biac. In CAD, the brewha comes to $4915.00 plus tax and shipping currently! At least the dollar was more in our favour when Jimmy bought it.

CorneliusAlphonse · Post by **CorneliusAlphonse** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:49 pm

You can certainly do it cheaper than that (25$ for a biab, $150 for a kettle, ~2-300 for element and controller) but it is a very diy intensive thing. Or if you don't mind using propane, it's just 25 for the biab, 150 for the kettle, ~100 for a burner and propane tank.

Becky · Post by **Becky** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:59 pm

wgould wrote:
Becky wrote:
wgould wrote:Thanks Mark, I quite like the look of the brewha biac, and I've read Jimmy's posts and viewed his and the other videos out there on it. At nearly 4 times the price of the brew-boss though, I want to make sure it's the one to get. You can get a lot of kettles and conicals for 4k
I don't think Jimmy's Brewha system cost $4k. I don't remember exactly the price range, but I don't think it was that high. I could be very wrong, or he fibbed to me so I wouldn't kick him outta the house.
LOL, I may need to sleep garage for a while if I go with the Biac. In CAD, the brewha comes to $4915.00 plus tax and shipping currently! At least the dollar was more in our favour when Jimmy bought it.

He got the 3-in-1, so that might be the difference

Becky · Post by **Becky** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:01 pm

CorneliusAlphonse wrote:You can certainly do it cheaper than that (25$ for a biab, $150 for a kettle, ~2-300 for element and controller) but it is a very diy intensive thing. Or if you don't mind using propane, it's just 25 for the biab, 150 for the kettle, ~100 for a burner and propane tank.

I might know where you can get a BIAB

$25 for a plain version, $30 with webbing and velcro around the top to help secure it around the kettle

Post by **RubberToe** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:08 pm

FWIW, I'm all DIY on an electric system in my basement. It's been a few years and took me about a year to make. I'd say I'm into all of my brew gear for a few grand so far (including conical and fridges). Details in my thread linked below. I also use carboys a lot. A chest freezer that holds two carboys for fermentation temp control goes a long way.

GuingesRock · Post by **GuingesRock** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:20 pm

I think there's a good argument for getting a good system from the start. A lot (myself included) end up constantly upgrading, and that's expensive. Stay away from the Braumeister. I've seen it in action and I thought it was ridiculous. I also didn't like the beer from it.

Post by **Jimmy** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:27 pm

I got in on early pricing on the brewha, and didn't spend nearly that on it. Also, the Canadian dollar was great at the time.

I don't have to tell you how great it is..I'd never go back to any other setup.

It's really about the ease of brew day, sanitary aspects, and the amount of control you have with the brewha.

With all that being said, you can make just as good beer with a bucket, burner and pot.

Post by **Jimmy** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:54 pm

GuingesRock wrote:Brewha, because it has fermentation temperature control. Jimmy has one. It's very similar to the setup I made for myself for about $300

Don't you use a 20g blichmann pot? Pretty sure that alone is more than $300?

Nothing against your setup, it's great, but it's not really a fair comparison.

You have a pot; the BREWHA is a conical (yeast harvesting and dumping trub is a breeze). It also allows you to rouse the hops from the bottom by use of co2...and gravity/beer samples are a breeze..no cleaning necessary.

You have threaded ball valves?; the BREWHA has triclover (and it includes a shit ton of triclover parts)

You have an immersion chiller; the BREWHA has a jacket (it doesn't need to be cleaned as it never touches the wort/beer). It's about a 20L volume jacket compared to the 90L capacity of the conical..it's very efficient.

You have to gravity transfer; the BREWHA allows for pressurized transfers (beer never has to be introduced to o2)

You have a pot that you have to lug around full of 10g of beer; the BREWHA is on casters and doesn't even need to move from where you brew

I'm sure there are other things that I'm not thinking of right now, but to blindly tell someone that it's basically the same isn't true...again, not trying to say there's anything wrong with your setup, but there are a TON of benefits to the BREWHA.

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:07 pm

I seen Jimmy's and left with a semi. Haha. Honestly if I had to do it again I'd look at something like that if I could afford it. With that being said I'm looking good for a jacketed conical to ferment 30 gal batches. I'd say a 35-40 gal fermenter would be key for me.

Post by **LeafMan66_67** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:27 pm

amartin wrote:If you're committed to spending a bunch of money on a fancy setup, go for it, but don't think you need to to make great all grain beer. A lot of us are still mashing in coolers or pots, boiling on the stove (if smaller batches) or gas burners, and then fermenting in buckets or carboys.

As for the cleaning, I don't think you're getting out of that no matter how much you spend.

^^^this! ^^^

GuingesRock · Post by **GuingesRock** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:33 pm

Jimmy,

Yes. I was thinking of my boiling/fermenting pot. I have a separate mash pot which is a 20 gal Blichmann. I'm always trying to think up the perfect kind of setup, and mine is far from that. Yours is closer to the ideal. I'd like it on wheels for sure. I brew on the kitchen Island and don't need to pressure transfer to kegs as I can use gravity, but I do need to get up on the island with my feet either side of the hot plate and pot and manually move the pot off the stove to another part of the Island so we can use the stove, and it's 12 gallons which is very heavy. I move it a few inches at a time and shuffle my feet to the next position before lifting again. It’s quite a sight I’m sure. I don't need to harvest yeast. I have all my hops in there any way. I absolutely love the jacket on the brewha. The built in immersion chiller in my setup works OK, but it isn't perfection, and I like perfection. I like having a separate bigger mash vessel. I like having ball valves close to the kettle because I find they get sanitised by the boil that way and I don't need to fuss with Starsan and stuff. Heat is the only way to sanitise a ball valve. I don’t find I want to dump trub, because I like it to be in there, for the primary ferment any way. You have the option there to ferment longer if you want, by dumping trub hops and stuff, whereas I think I need to move the beer into my kegs after 4 – 7 days for the secondary ferment. I wash out my pot in the sink with the spray hose on the faucet and turn it upside down on the draining board. I can take the immersion chiller coil out fairly easily and put it in the dishwasher, but find it doesn’t clean that well, and every few brews I leave it in and boil PBW in the pot for a proper clean. That’s why I would prefer to have a jacketed vessel. The jacket allows you to use a fancy chilling machines. I can’t do that for fear the coolant would leak into the beer. You have more powerful elements. I have good power, but use a combination of stove and boil coil element. At least I don’t need a controller that way. I have the boil coil element on full and use the hot plate control for perfect boil control.

And! I was only teasing you any way. I think that the BrewHa is the best thing I’ve seen. It agrees with everything I believe about brewing, and that’s why I said it was the best option.

wgould · Post by **wgould** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:34 pm

Jimmy wrote:I got in on early pricing on the brewha, and didn't spend nearly that on it. Also, the Canadian dollar was great at the time.

I don't have to tell you how great it is..I'd never go back to any other setup.

It's really about the ease of brew day, sanitary aspects, and the amount of control you have with that brewha.

With all that being said, you can make just as good beer with a bucket, burner and pot.

Jimmy, would you still take the plunge at the current Canadian price of $4915 plus tax and shipping cost or would you go for something else at that price point?

OutlawBrewing · Post by **OutlawBrewing** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:42 pm

Have you seen the info on the Grainfather? It is an all-in-one machine out of New Zealand that has a kickstarter on right now to launch in the US.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/88 ... nav_search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It seems well priced in my opinion. I like the still attachment option as well.

Doesn't have the fancy interface that the brew boss does. Uses a PID interface. Sounds like they are developing some sort of app to assist with brew day, but by the sounds it will only be a fancy timer.

Another potential drawback is the size. It has a 30L capacity. Initially I couldn't understand how you could do a 20L batch with the grain volume but then I realized you have to do a sparge to add some additional volume. That means you would need a separate way to heat the sparge water. In my opinion one of the big draws of going electric is the convenience of temp control and not overshooting temps. That is one of the things I find most inconvenient with propane brewing, so you would still have to rig up a HLT on a temp control. Another down side is that the US version only comes in 110V option, where the original version was 220V. I can only assume this would increase heating times significantly.

mcgster · Post by **mcgster** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:58 pm

I have looked at the GrainFather a few times as it has been making the rounds of the NZ boards for awhile but on that kickstarter it only lists a 1600W element.. that can't be right.. that could barely boil 20L of water.

wgould · Post by **wgould** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:50 pm

That's a pretty cool setup, but I'd be worried about that 1600W element too. That doesn't seem like enough power. I think I'm still between the brew boss, possibly with their new COFI insert or going all in with the brewha.

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