Home of the BrewNosers

That's the idea of these forums ...sharing knowledge and discussing possible ways to brew better beers. It's all about the beer, which in turn is all about good brewing practises and imagination.

You have to drink it too, then you learn what you like and you can build on that. A beer loving spouse and or friends can help with this, but don’t forget that a camel was a horse designed by a committee. Pay attention to style limitations, and within those limitations let your imagination run wild.

Everyone has a different take on this, and a different definition of what good beer is. That’s mine, or at least what I came up with for now.

Good to have you back Mark.

Thanks RossBee

Maybe my OP sounds a bit like I think I know it all, but I don't. I was looking for a group discussion. One of those forum debates that leads to a better understanding for me.

I'll say something controversial and stir things up maybe. There's four important aspects to advancing craft beer that I can think of ...

One is brewing techniques and practises. Improving those is a big benefit. Communities such as this one encourage and support brewers new and old. Brewers, both amateur and professional, working together and supporting each other.

Then there's creative beer design. Experiencing different ingredients and brewing methods, studying beer and beer styles and creating new beers, and not just working through the pages of BCS.

Then there's beer judging. Providing feedback and support for the above. Another essential part of the craft beer movement.

Finally the drinkers who drink and enjoy the end product. Without the drinkers, and their enjoyment and pleasure they get from the beer, none of this would be worthwhile.

I've only been brewing for just over a year but I've learned a few things that seem to have a noticeable affect on homebrew quality. Regarding the process of making good beer:

1. Find a process that suits the equipment you have. Consistency is more important than gear.
2. Sanitation
3. Fermentation temperature control
4. Practice. Keep doing it.

I've read that it's not uncommon for people to win competitions with very modest processes and equipment, but the one thing that usually makes beer good enough during competition is temperature control during fermentation.

*PS: welcome back

Thanks Evan.

Yes! basic equipment, and basic sanitation and fermentation temperature control.

I'm not too concerned with consistency, as don't often brew the same beer twice ...what is it with consistency? It's more important for commercial brewers isn't it?

GuingesRock wrote:I'm not too concerned with consistency, as don't often brew the same beer twice ...what is it with consistency? It's more important for commercial brewers isn't it?

Consistency in process is definitely important. Makes it easier to note deviations that may have made a beer better, or worse than the last time you made it or a similar recipe.

jeffsmith wrote:

GuingesRock wrote:I'm not too concerned with consistency, as don't often brew the same beer twice ...what is it with consistency? It's more important for commercial brewers isn't it?

Consistency in process is definitely important. Makes it easier to note deviations that may have made a beer better, or worse than the last time you made it or a similar recipe.

I don't think I understand what consistency is. I was thinking it was being able to make the same beer exactly the same time and time again. If recording, measuring and record keeping is included in that then I agree. But all the same, it might be possible to consistently make the same beer without that, if you were using the same ingredients and had the same environmental conditions. That in itself is an impossibility as batches of grain, hops etc. are different, a few specs of wild yeast might flutter in etc.. There are so many variables out of a brewers control.

Consistency is important to me, as it's required to be able to determine the effect of making a change from batch to batch. If you can't repeat a beer, how do you know the effect of changing the recipe, process, water profile, etc.

Jimmy wrote:Consistency is important to me, as it's required to be able to determine the effect of making a change from batch to batch. If you can't repeat a beer, how do you know the effect of changing the recipe, process, water profile, etc.

But what's the definition of consistency? I think we are talking about different things. Is it pumping out Bud Light, exactly the same, batch after batch?

GuingesRock wrote:What's the definition of consistency? I think we are talking about different things. Is it pumping out Bud Light, exactly the same, batch after batch?

Sure. Its also being able to change one part of your brew (ie. hop schedule?) and know that's what changed the final product.

GuingesRock wrote:

jeffsmith wrote:

GuingesRock wrote:I'm not too concerned with consistency, as don't often brew the same beer twice ...what is it with consistency? It's more important for commercial brewers isn't it?

Consistency in process is definitely important. Makes it easier to note deviations that may have made a beer better, or worse than the last time you made it or a similar recipe.

I don't think I understand what consistency is. I was thinking it was being able to make the same beer exactly the same time and time again. If recording, measuring and record keeping is included in that then I agree. But all the same, it might be possible to consistently make the same beer without that, if you were using the same ingredients and had the same environmental conditions. That in itself is an impossibility as batches of grain, hops etc. are different, a few specs of wild yeast might flutter in etc.. There are so many variables out of a brewers control.

Welcome back Mark!!! Looking good on the BOTY circuit!
I think most, if not all Brewers aim for consistency, but also improvement! Like using the same fermenting vessel (for you it's the kettle, still?) or sticking to a lagering schedule that works for them. Consistency lets you adjust variables you can control. I do agree though that there are many variables still out of our control, but again so many we can control.

AllanMar wrote:

GuingesRock wrote:What's the definition of consistency? I think we are talking about different things. Is it pumping out Bud Light, exactly the same, batch after batch?

Sure. Its also being able to change one part of your brew (ie. hop schedule?) and know that's what changed the final product.

I'm getting it, slowly

GasMD30 wrote:
Welcome back Mark!!! Looking good on the BOTY circuit!
I think most, if not all Brewers aim for consistency, but also improvement! Like using the same fermenting vessel (for you it's the kettle, still?) or sticking to a lagering schedule that works for them. Consistency lets you adjust variables you can control. I do agree though that there are many variables still out of our control, but again so many we can control.

Thanks This is good as well. Yes still the kettle, still consistent brewing methods that I know well. Like having the same old fiddle perhaps to play a tune. Same lagering schedule etc. yes. So it becomes almost automatic and you know where you are?

GuingesRock wrote:But what's the definition of consistency? I think we are talking about different things. Is it pumping out Bud Light, exactly the same, batch after batch?

Mark! Welcome back man, you were well missed! Hope you had a great summer! Congrats on all the accolades you've accumulated!

I am like you and don't often brew a beer more than once or twice. In that regard, I can completely understand your comment about not caring about consistency. For example I make an English pale ale a couple times a year. Maybe I sub a hop or malt in it each time I brew it just because I didn't feel like running out to the home brew shop to get exactly what I used last time. It's not exactly the same beer every time and I really don't care, its close enough and I know I'll still really enjoy the final product.

I more think of consistency like Jeff mentioned: process consistency. Meaning can I design a recipe and then hit all the numbers I want when brewing it? To do this I need consistency in the processes; accurately and consistently being able to measure and weigh ingredients, hitting and controlling temperatures and even having a great understanding my system (boil off rate, losses to dead space, hop material/trub in the fermentor etc.). Being able to brew on my system in a consistent manor will allow me to know with confidence that I can produce the beer I have spent so much time designing.

In the end does it really matter if I am off by a couple of gravity points or a few IBU's here or there? Probably not. Will I lose any sleep over it? Absolutely not. Will I still have great beer? Yes I will.

You are also right about ingredient consistency. Batches of malt, hops and even your water (unless buying RO or stripping it yourself as different times of year can have an impact on your water profile) are outside of our control, so in essence, unless you are blending your batches like the big guys to minimize that effect, it will never be perfectly consistent.

Just my two cents.

Matt

Call it repeatability, call it consistency, call it what you want, it's all about the passion of creation. Never made a beer yet that I didn't like, some more than others; it's a learning process. We'd all be drinking Bud Light if we were not on a quest for a better mouse trap.

Ladd wrote:

GuingesRock wrote:But what's the definition of consistency? I think we are talking about different things. Is it pumping out Bud Light, exactly the same, batch after batch?

Mark! Welcome back man, you were well missed! Hope you had a great summer! Congrats on all the accolades you've accumulated!

I am like you and don't often brew a beer more than once or twice. In that regard, I can completely understand your comment about not caring about consistency. For example I make an English pale ale a couple times a year. Maybe I sub a hop or malt in it each time I brew it just because I didn't feel like running out to the home brew shop to get exactly what I used last time. It's not exactly the same beer every time and I really don't care, its close enough and I know I'll still really enjoy the final product.

I more think of consistency like Jeff mentioned: process consistency. Meaning can I design a recipe and then hit all the numbers I want when brewing it? To do this I need consistency in the processes; accurately and consistently being able to measure and weigh ingredients, hitting and controlling temperatures and even having a great understanding my system (boil off rate, losses to dead space, hop material/trub in the fermentor etc.). Being able to brew on my system in a consistent manor will allow me to know with confidence that I can produce the beer I have spent so much time designing.

In the end does it really matter if I am off by a couple of gravity points or a few IBU's here or there? Probably not. Will I lose any sleep over it? Absolutely not. Will I still have great beer? Yes I will.

You are also right about ingredient consistency. Batches of malt, hops and even your water (unless buying RO or stripping it yourself as different times of year can have an impact on your water profile) are outside of our control, so in essence, unless you are blending your batches like the big guys to minimize that effect, it will never be perfectly consistent.

Just my two cents.

Matt

Thanks, I appreciate it. I did have a good summer thanks and hope you did too. Just had 2 weeks off with my family and my mother came over from England. She's so much fun.

I’m understanding more and more what people mean by consistency with each post. It could be at the crux of “Brewing Good Beer”. Who knew! (Well I guess everyone but me ). I screwed up my second batch of “Working Man” but in retrospect I tried something different with a split batch and steeped Jasmine flowers added to half instead of Jasmine in the boil (late). Instead of one good beer I ended up with two mediocre beers. I listened to the judges, "needs more Jasmine" etc. The original got so many medals. There’s a lesson in there somewhere. I think I could make the original again. It’s precisely documented to the last detail, every temperature, gravity, Mash PH, brew date, and time and dates recorded for each step, right through fermentation, force carb pressure, ingredients sources, with scribbled notes on the side about anything that went wrong, in case it was actually right.

It’s good to know that you can still have consistency and brew a different beer each time. I’d get a bit bored doing the same one over (Sagittarius).

RossBee wrote:Call it repeatability, call it consistency, call it what you want, it's all about the passion of creation. Never made a beer yet that I didn't like, some more than others; it's a learning process. We'd all be drinking Bud Light if we were not on a quest for a better mouse trap.

"Passion of creation" That's surely the main thing.

The latest issue of BYO covers the top 10 things to do to improve your homebrew. Number 1 is fermentation control temp. Yada yada yada I'm looking for a fermentation fridge

Must confess though, I stopped checking the gravities every time. I know where it’s going to be near enough. I do sometimes check to make sure I’m on track or close enough. I know that’s a heinous crime.

GuingesRock wrote:Must confess though, I stopped checking the gravities every time.

Heresy!!!!!

Jimmy wrote:Consistency is important to me, as it's required to be able to determine the effect of making a change from batch to batch. If you can't repeat a beer, how do you know the effect of changing the recipe, process, water profile, etc.

bandarker wrote:The latest issue of BYO covers the top 10 things to do to improve your homebrew. Number 1 is fermentation control temp. Yada yada yada I'm looking for a fermentation fridge

So we have so far …. In no particular order:

1) Passion of creation, and creativity

2) Fermentation Temperature control

3) Sanitation

4) Consistency (as defined in the posts above)

5) Simple effective gear maybe.

6) Research/experimentation – maybe some heresy thrown in.

7) Communication/collaboration with other brewers.

8) Drinking the beer and developing a personal taste, and with that a personal brewing style.

9) Accessing feedback from beer judges/critics spouse/friends

10) Practice and keep doing it.

Anything else? Did I miss anything?

How does this compare to the BYO top 10 article? Did they get it right

For me, when it comes to creating anything, whether it's beer, food, photography or woodworking I find that the outcome is always directly affected by:

Knowledge
Planning and preparation
Knowing your ingredients and knowing that they are of good quality
Having good quality tools that are suitable for the job (Not necessarily the most expensive)
Checking quality throughout the process

All of these together build confidence, which is probably the most important ingredient in any creative process. The more confident I am, the better the end product, and the more fun the process is.

Ruby wrote:For me, when it comes to creating anything, whether it's beer, food, photography or woodworking I find that the outcome is always directly affected by:

Knowledge
Planning and preparation
Knowing your ingredients and knowing that they are of good quality
Having good quality tools that are suitable for the job (Not necessarily the most expensive)
Checking quality throughout the process

All of these together build confidence, which is probably the most important ingredient in any creative process. The more confident I am, the better the end product, and the more fun the process is.

I tried to apply that to brewing specifically.

A craving for knowledge of brewing and beer.
The excitement of design and preparation (including getting a new shiny brew pot)
Fostering a passion for beer ingredients and for beer.
Good quality cherished and cared for tools, as any craftsman would have.
Checking the quality at each stage. Taking the time to admire the product at each stage, and enjoying a glass at the end.

I would think all that stuff you said, absolutely leads to a confident and successful craftsman/brewer who enjoys his craft, like you say. Lack of confidence when starting out brewing is stressful. Brewnosers are great at helping out with that. But it's also fun at the beginning.

Great post Ruby

Also: http://www.tastybrew.com/humor/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;