Rearranging Brewday

[Taigh-Leanna]

So, like a lot of you I'm sure, I'm trying to come up with ways of reducing the length of time brewing on brew day. For me, one batch takes a good 4-5 hours or more, and I don't think that's uncommon (correct me if I'm wrong.) One way I thought of to reduce brewing time was to pre-hop my mash-in/sparge water. Currently I'm pre-boiling tap water (to reduce chlorine along with anything else, then finishing with a campden tablet). I was thinking of adding my bittering hops at this stage, then using this pre-hopped water to mash and sparge. This way I could reduce my boil time down to 10 minutes or so; long enough for finishing hops and sterilization.

Has anyone tried this? Does it work, or am I just making things difficult? Does pre-hopped water effect mashing; pH, efficiency, etc.? Is a 10 minute final boil long enough to drive off DMS or any other off-flavours?

Thanks!

[Taigh-Leanna]

Another question; Could I make my pre-hopped waters days in advance, or are oils too volatile, thus reducing bittering potential?

[jtmwhyte]

Could you please lay out your typical brew day in steps. I'm sure we could find some other places to cut time.

All of these things will harm the quality of your beer greatly IMHO.

[Keith]

So, like a lot of you I'm sure, I'm trying to come up with ways of reducing the length of time brewing on brew day. For me, one batch takes a good 4-5 hours or more, and I don't think that's uncommon (correct me if I'm wrong.) One way I thought of to reduce brewing time was to pre-hop my mash-in/sparge water. Currently I'm pre-boiling tap water (to reduce chlorine along with anything else, then finishing with a campden tablet). I was thinking of adding my bittering hops at this stage, then using this pre-hopped water to mash and sparge. This way I could reduce my boil time down to 10 minutes or so; long enough for finishing hops and sterilization.

Has anyone tried this? Does it work, or am I just making things difficult? Does pre-hopped water effect mashing; pH, efficiency, etc.? Is a 10 minute final boil long enough to drive off DMS or any other off-flavours?

Thanks!

If you are looking to breakup the brewday or reduce time. Look at mashing in the night before, or look at getting a timer setup to heat your mash water while you are sleeping, or a combination of both.

As trevor said. What you suggested will just harm the quality of the product. If you lay out a standard schedule I'm sure the community can provide suggestions to save you a bit of time.

[mcgster]

Another question; Could I make my pre-hopped waters days in advance, or are oils too volatile, thus reducing bittering potential?

No, this would be a waste of hops. In the "Hops" book from brewers publications they talk about "pre-mash" hoping which i believe is what you are referring to. The mash chemistry effectively strips the aromatics and un-isomerized alpha acids from the water. This is why the general consensus is first wort hoping.

This way I could reduce my boil time down to 10 minutes or so; long enough for finishing hops and sterilization.

10 minutes is not long enough. There have been a few tests suggesting that 30 minutes may be acceptable, however, it is suspect still. You have to keep in mind that throughout the boil you are converting DMSP into DMS so that the DMS can be boiled off. There are charts that show the conversion rate of DMSP to DMS over time and most of them show it over a 60 or 90 minute boil and active, but tapering off, at the end. So a 10 minute boil would leave DMS precursor in the wort which would then convert to DMS via enzymatic conversion instead of temperature dependent conversion in the kettle.

I agree that if you require shaving time, mashing the night before is a relatively safe way to go.

[darciandjenn]

This may be of interest: http://brulosophy.com/2016/03/17/short- ... r-2-hours/

Instead of boiling your water twice (once pre-mash and then during your regular wort boil) have you thought about buying RO water or something? Seems like a step I'd want to eliminate.

[joe_r_harvie]

Have you considered full batch sparging. It helped me cut close to an hour off my brewday.

[Halifax_Jeff]

I just did an overnight full volume mash this week. Made my life a lot easier and made the process more enjoyable. I covered my cooler in blankets for the night after my mash started at 152 and 13hrs later (newborn babies don't care about a brew schedule) it dropped to 135. Once I was able to get back to the brew I just drained my mash tun and started the boil/cool/transfer and I was done. Much more enjoyable and less exhausting. I will definitely do this for any dry beers I want to make.

The beers fermenting away so I can't really speak to its quality yet, but I'm sure it'll turn out fine!

[jason.loxton]

Why are you pre-boiling your water? Is it just for the chlorine? Or are you trying to precipitate out calcium carbonate? If just the chlorine, then you can save yourself a bunch of trouble: the camden tablet is already taking care of it!

[Keggermeister]

Chlorine will dissipate on it's own if you leave the water in an open vessel overnight. It is pretty volatile.

[mcgster]

I thought so too but the water here in St John's is heavily chlorinated and even after leaving it out over night you could still smell the chlorine. I tried boiling it and could still pick up chlorine in the water. I splurged the 3$ per batch to get RO water over here.


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[jason.loxton]

Mcgster: I think that St. John's might use chloramine, which won't dissipate by letting sit out. A camden tablet will take care of it in minutes though, and costs pennies rather than $3.

I am not 100% on the chloramines thing, but this newspaper article about Gander says that is the case:

"The town originally planned to install a chlorine booster station to combat the chlorine distribution problem, but the engineering firm consulted for the project suggested the town use chloramines to treat the water supply.

“Cost was never a factor,” Parrott said. “We’ve got to have safe and drinkable water no matter what the cost. At Bay Bulls Big Pond, which is where St. John’s treats its water, chloramines are used there to treat the water without a problem.”"

http://www.ganderbeacon.ca/News/Local/2 ... rsquo%3B/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mcgster]

Jason, i agree with your point about the chloramine, but i should add that i like to use RO water for other reasons as well. I find the tap water here tastes terrible aside from the chlorine. In NB i have a well and the water is excellent but the water here just doesn't cut it!

[ivorm]

I just did an overnight full volume mash this week. Made my life a lot easier and made the process more enjoyable. I covered my cooler in blankets for the night after my mash started at 152 and 13hrs later (newborn babies don't care about a brew schedule) it dropped to 135. Once I was able to get back to the brew I just drained my mash tun and started the boil/cool/transfer and I was done. Much more enjoyable and less exhausting. I will definitely do this for any dry beers I want to make.

The beers fermenting away so I can't really speak to its quality yet, but I'm sure it'll turn out fine!

I've heard of a few people doing this and I was wondering, will this extended mash at a lower temp make my beer too dry or cause any other problems? I'm planning on mashing a double IPA tonight and boiling it tomorrow, I'm just wondering if it's better to leave in my cooler overnight or to drain it off into my kettle and leave it there for the night? Setting my mash up and going to bed sounds pretty appealing, I'm just wondering what the downside is?

[Halifax_Jeff]

Well I think it'll be pretty dry.. but not sure to what degree. I'll know soon. I did it to save some time so it was worth trying for me. If your aiming for a dry beer I think it should work. If you're looking for a beer with more body I'm not sure you'd want to leave it overnight. Someone else can chime in with some of their experiences.

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[Hobbitfu]

I would think there would be little difference from draining your cooler mashtun to boil kettle over night to leaving in the mashtun. Unless you raise the mash out temp to denature the enzyme, which I assume is not being done using a cooler. Or correct me if I'm wrong...

[mcgster]

I wouldn't leave it on the grains over night, but not because of enzyme activity since alpha and beta amylase both have very narrow ranges. The tanin extraction from the prolonged contact with the husks would be my worry.

[Woody]

You can do this technique with any beer. I haven't tried it longer than 8 hours but I would not hesitate. Hold the dark grains back and do a little mini mash to add to the boil or fermenter after a short boil. I just wouldn't mash any dark grain that long for fear of astringent flavours.

[jtmwhyte]

I've done it. Only with beers I wanted to dry out, but it works very well. I've never made better IPA than with this method. No astringent flavours.

P. S. Is the OP still around here?

[Taigh-Leanna]

Yup, still here. I just don't stop in that often.

Thanks for all the help everyone. I'll pass on the pre-mash hopping and maybe try an overnight mash sometime; maybe for my next IPA.

Roughly, here's my normal schedule

60 min - bring all water to boil
15 min - boil
30-45 min - let cool to strike temp
60 min - mash
10-15 min - mash-out
20-45 min - sparge (batch or continuous)
40 min - bring to boil
60-90 min - boil
20 min - counterflow cool/Rack

[LeafMan66_67]

Just for comparison, here's my typical brew process for a 20L BIAB batch:

1. In the week leading up to brew day, weigh out the grain.
2. Night before brew day, weigh out water additions, hops. Get burner and pot outside, fill with full volume of charcoal filtered water.
3. Morning of brew day, light burner, Mill grains, water at strike temperature in around 20-25 minutes.
4. 60 to 90 minute mash, depending on what else I have going on around the house.
5. Mash out - ramp time 5 to 7 minutes, rest for 10 minutes. (There are days I skip the rest and just pull the grains at 168F)
6. Bring to a boil, 10 - 15 minutes.
7. 60 minute boil for all but pils malt, then I increase to 90 minutes.
8. Chill, whirlpool for 20 minutes. This time of year, the chill portion is only 5 to 7 minutes. I could skip the whirpool at this time of year, but it gets me less hop debris in the fermenter.
9. Let it rest for 20 minutes (clean pump, chiller, hoses) then gravity feed into fermenter.
10. Finish cleanup, 15 minutes.

[LiverDance]

Yup, still here. I just don't stop in that often.

Thanks for all the help everyone. I'll pass on the pre-mash hopping and maybe try an overnight mash sometime; maybe for my next IPA.

Roughly, here's my normal schedule
Here are a couple of suggested short cuts for you
Use Camden tablets
60 min - bring all water to boil - Skip
15 min - boil - Skip
30-45 min - let cool to strike temp - Heat to strike temp (same time frame)
60 min - mash
10-15 min - mash-out Skip
20-45 min - sparge (batch or continuous) - Batch sparge and reduce to 10 mins
40 min - bring to boil
60-90 min - boil
20 min - counterflow cool/Rack

[Taigh-Leanna]

You skip mash-out?!?

[Keith]

You skip mash-out?!?

I do all the time.

[Taigh-Leanna]

Heh. I guess I'll try it! Glad I asked.