Old yeast

[Broob]

I found a vial of WLP802 in the back of my fridge and the expiry was Aug 2015. I've got it in a starter right now. What do you think the odds are that I'll get anything viable? Mrmalty calculator says 2% viability. I'm not optimistic.

[Celiacbrew]

how big a starter and what was the gravity?

[Broob]

1.5L 1040ish

[mumblecrunch]

FWIW I'm planning to do a starter of WLP080 (best before July 2015) tonight and also going with 1.5L or so, but using 1.020 for the gravity. Then I'm hoping to chill and decant and feed it another 1.5L @1.040 hopefully tomorrow night but if not Saturday morning.

I have done this once before with a yeast almost that old and it worked out fine. The backup for the batch is US-05 so I figure I have nothing to lose.


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[Celiacbrew]

You could use a smaller starter to make it easier on them to lower the ph etc.

[Lucas]

Yes if I am using older yeast I usually start with a much smaller starter - like 250mL or 500mL - then depending on how well that goes bump it up to 1L or 1.5L.

[Woody]

With older yeast and bad batches I've had I find it better to do a 1.020 wort around 500 ml and put in on the stir plate. Then another step 1.020 maybe 1 Litre and then treat it like a vial after that. Then put in in a 1.040 wort 2 litres etc and keep going on the plate. It can be done.

[mumblecrunch]

I decided to go with a smaller initial starter of 1L at ~0.020, but not as small as I would for bottle dregs (250 - 500mL). Getting on to 18 hours since pitching and no signs of life at all. I have put it in a warmer environment than it was in overnight and we'll see if that wakes it up. It smelled fine and there was no sign of a grey color or anything.

[Broob]

My starter is going nuts right now. I'll step it up a few times to get to lager pitching rate.

[Broob]

Hit 1010 this morning so I figured I'd throw it in the fridge to crash. Nice layer of yeast after a few hours.

[mumblecrunch]

Mine, on the other hand, is a bucket (well, flask) of fail. Gravity hadn't moved after 36 hours (thank you digital refractometer) and by that point it was putting off an odor I wouldn't want anywhere near beer. I've got a vial of Cry Havoc that's a little older that I may try to spin up, but I suspect the Burton Ale and Irish Ale yeasts with 2014 expiry dates in my fridge are just going to hit the drain. At least I can collect the labels for the White Labs customer club

[Broob]

Step two of the starter is done and crashing. Just to be safe I'll do another step tonight and it should be ready to roll for the weekend. Was originally planning on making a blonde ale for the summer but now that I will have a good pitch of lager yeast I'll make some type of pilsner - 65% pilsner, 25% vienna and 10% munich. Magnum to bitter and Saaz to finish it off. I'll continue to post (if anybody's interested) throughout the process until I get it in a glass to see how it turns out.

[Broob]

Pils boiling away. Great morning for a brew.

[Broob]

This was about 8 hours after pitching. 10 degrees C.

[Broob]

guess that really is a bottom fermenting yeast

[Broob]

Just kegged this last night. "Finished" at 1010, might drop another point or two in the next few weeks. Tasted great, should be excellent in a few more weeks.

[Broob]

Turned out great. No diacetyl or DMS that I can detect. Needs to age a bit.

[Broob]

Moral of the story, if you have old expired yeast use it anyway.

[mumblecrunch]

Moral of the story, if you have old expired yeast use it anyway.

Despite my previous fail I'm trying again with some Vermont Ale slurry from early this year (January, I think) that was kept under the beer it fermented. I'm kinda expecting to fail again but I'm open to being pleasantly surprised. Starter wort was 1.2L @ 1.035 or so. Pretty warm in my kitchen too. If it kicks in I may move it somewhere cooler to finish.




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[mumblecrunch]

Dupe.

[Broob]

I'm certainly not going to sweat using old yeast anymore. This is actually the best lager I've ever made. I think I'll use this strain again.

[mumblecrunch]

Well whaddya know:



Now to plan a brew for next weekend to use it. Thinking the Hoppy Thing recipe from Tree House Brewing (not actually one of their beers, just a recipe provided by their head brewer). Matches my current hop supply extremely well.


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[McGruff]

I usually use WLP833. Have you used it? If so, how does it compare to 802? I try lots of different ale yeasts, but not for lagers, at least yet.

[Broob]

I usually use WLP833. Have you used it? If so, how does it compare to 802? I try lots of different ale yeasts, but not for lagers, at least yet.

So I posted a reply to this already but it was lost when the site backup was done. I have used the 833 to brew a Schwarzbier and German Pils. Both turned out great but I like the 802 better. I had a similar grain bill and hopping with the German Pils and this czech pils with the 802. The 802 beer is drier and more crisp. 802 may be my new go to lager strain.

[Broob]

I usually use WLP833. Have you used it? If so, how does it compare to 802? I try lots of different ale yeasts, but not for lagers, at least yet.

So I posted a reply to this already but it was lost when the site backup was done. I have used the 833 to brew a Schwarzbier and German Pils. Both turned out great but I like the 802 better. I had a similar grain bill and hopping with the German Pils and this czech pils with the 802. The 802 beer is drier and more crisp. 802 may be my new go to lager strain.