Anyone Successfully Cloning Unfiltered?

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Woody
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Re: Anyone Successfully Cloning Unfiltered?

Post by Woody » Mon May 07, 2018 9:06 pm

Water chemistry makes a huge difference but 100 ish all grain bathes in it's something I still struggle with. If you don't know what to do I'd hold off for awhile. Don't feel you can't make hoppy beer just because you use Extract. I always got the maillard effect or home brew twang but that was due to small boils. Larger pot would help for a full boil or adding the extract at the end of the boil followed by flame out hops. (It's already been boiled to death) Do what works best for you and your lifestyle. All grain was what I picked due the flavour difference I experienced and it's cheaper after a larger start up cost. Regardless of batch size if you want more hop flavour add more hops late in the boil and follow a quality recipe and you'll keep dialling things in until your happy. :cheers2: :rockin:

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Re: Anyone Successfully Cloning Unfiltered?

Post by DocksideBrewing » Tue May 08, 2018 9:52 am

Thanks Woody! I'm quite happy with my end result and have been for the past few years (gotten great reviews from family and friends too), which is when I started minimizing my extract usage as much as possible and went to full boils (made a huge difference). I have been adding the 1 or 2kg of DME within the final 10mins of the boil and generally mash around 3-4kg of grains (this obviously varies depending on the recipe). But yes getting more hop flavour is what I am looking to achieve.

I'm going to try and do a longer whirlpool/hop stand at flame out. I don't have the ability for great temp control after flame out, so that will be something I have to play around with and see what can be done. But I just created a new recipe, with more hops which I will be brewing either this weekend or next. Thoughts on this and the amount of hops?

Dawn til Dusk APA
23L batch
ABV 5%
IBU 41

2.75kg Can 2 Row
.5kg Flaked Oats
.4kg Cara Pils
.35 Caramel 30L

Whirlfloc @ 15
20g Mosaic @ 15
1kg DME @ 10
50g Citra @ 5
50g Mosaic @ 5
50g Citra @ Flameout
50g Mosaic @ Flameout
35g Citra - 5 days Dry hop
35g Mosaic - 5 day Dry hop

US-05 yeast.

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Re: Anyone Successfully Cloning Unfiltered?

Post by Woody » Tue May 08, 2018 1:25 pm

Recipe looks good. I'd add your flame out hops and do a 20 min hop stand and then add 50g more of each Mosiac and Citra. You'll thank yourself for it. I'd also double the dry hop. :cheers:

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Re: Anyone Successfully Cloning Unfiltered?

Post by DocksideBrewing » Tue May 08, 2018 1:50 pm

Woody wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 1:25 pm
Recipe looks good. I'd add your flame out hops and do a 20 min hop stand and then add 50g more of each Mosiac and Citra. You'll thank yourself for it. I'd also double the dry hop. :cheers:
Okay so you would add the 50g each of Mosaic and Citra at flameout for a 20 min hop stand? What temp would you recommend for the hop stand? Then after that add 50g more of each before cooling?

Double up the dry hops is no problem, I've got an abundance of these as I just picked up 1lb each from Everwood along with 2lbs of Cascade, which I use for my Jalapeno Ale. Would you dry hop separate or just throw them all in at the same time?

Thanks for the advice, always looking to improve my batches.

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Re: Anyone Successfully Cloning Unfiltered?

Post by Woody » Tue May 08, 2018 2:11 pm

Anytime and correct. Add your flame out hops and put the pot top on for 20 mins and then add the other hops once time is up before you cool. I find while the flame out hops are steeping I loose 20-30F in the 20-30 mins I wait. Then I add the last addition of hops and immediately turn on the wort chiller. Lots of different options buts this is what I do. As for dry hop I mix all my dry hops together and add in one of those reusable bags from Everwood. I boil it to sanitise and add a few marbles to weight down. I see you earlier mentioned temp control. If you don't have a fermentation chamber to keep the yeast in check don't forget about a home made swap cooler (just google it) or use the power of evaporation. A wet towel and a fan does wonders during active primary fermentation. Just add water every 5-6 hours. Or use a yeast the you can drive a little warmer without esters.

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Re: Anyone Successfully Cloning Unfiltered?

Post by DocksideBrewing » Tue May 08, 2018 2:58 pm

Okay this is great advice, yeah summer months make it tough for me to keep up production due to the temp in my apartment. That's why I generally am using US-05 or S04 as my yeast options. Might try the towel and fan trick sometime! During dry hops, I have been putting my hops into a sterilized stainless steel dry hop strainer/filter and then putting that into the carboy. This has worked well to get the aromas from them but minimize the loss of beer from the hop particles/sediment.

Last question (i think). Do you add your flame out hops directly in or do you put them in a bag too? I have always added directly into the wort.

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Re: Anyone Successfully Cloning Unfiltered?

Post by Woody » Tue May 08, 2018 3:51 pm

Just toss them in with no bag just like in the boil. As for your dry hop method it sounds solid! For the record I love US05 and always have a vacuum sealed brick in the house. Usually one of the Truro guys wants to split on one. If you are into liquid yeast WLP644, Wyeast 1272 and Wyeast 1318 can be driven a little warmer and add some awesome flavours. The other option is to go for a Belgian yeast during the warmer summer months. Always look at the yeast optimal fermentation temperature to keep in the sweet spot.

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Re: Anyone Successfully Cloning Unfiltered?

Post by DocksideBrewing » Tue May 08, 2018 4:00 pm

Perfect! Yeah I've looked a lot into yeast and I do love US-05 and it's kind of a never fail yeast for what I brew (generally IPA's and Pale/Blondes/Creams). I honestly haven't used liquid yeast for year, since I started doing more research and realizing temp was crazy important. Generally my room temp ranges from 20-22 degrees Celsius, so US-05 fits that range. I'll take a look at the yeasts you mentioned, as I'm always looking for variety and changes.

Just a super fun hobby to play around with and rewarding at the end too!

Thanks again and happy brewing!

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Re: Anyone Successfully Cloning Unfiltered?

Post by Woody » Wed May 09, 2018 12:13 am

Just remember that if your room temp is 20-22 your beer will ferment warmer during primary fermentation. It could get up to 24-26 C and US05 is much cleaner at 18C.

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Re: Anyone Successfully Cloning Unfiltered?

Post by oceanic_brew » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:33 pm

I would like to add that too many people aren’t conscious of oxidation with their IPA’s it’s a crucial step to keeping those precious hop flavors you’re seeking.

It’s obviously more important in packaging and distribution at the commercial level since you aren’t always in control of the elements past you’re brewery door but you’d be amazed at how fast those flavors and aromas dissipate with the smallest amount of oxidation.

The three biggest improvements I’ve seen in my own IPAs were absolutely eliminating oxygen ingress post fermentation and transferring to corny (it’s harder than you might think). Getting an actual pump powered whirlpool to move the beer around, and lastly and one I’m still working on is a complimentary malt and water profile. Nash clearly knows what he’s doing in all these areas but what I find most beautiful about his product isn’t actually the hop presence it’s the balance and I feel most breweries are missing that.

I was at the brewery a couple months ago and had his Amarillo smash beer. There was such an evidence of simplicity to the recipe or so it seemed but it reminds me of working with audio recordings where you just use your tools to fine tune all the characteristics of the sound. I went home and brewed the best IPA I’ve made to date with one malt and two hops. It was literally just magnum for bittering and a boat load of late hops and whirlpool.

I had gotten so carried away with crazy multi temperature hop stands and I’m sure they have their place too but there’s something to be said about achieving a good product with simplicity first.




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Woody
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Re: Anyone Successfully Cloning Unfiltered?

Post by Woody » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:11 pm

Well said!

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