December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

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oceanic_brew
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December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by oceanic_brew » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:37 pm

Barrel Aged Sour Doppelbock - Keep this at Room temp as it's still bottle conditioning and is talking longer than usual.

Some history on this beer:

I first tried a sour bock at Mikeller in Iceland back in 2016. They had a raspberry sour triplebock on tap there that was insane. I came home from that trip and have been fermenting various versions of my attempt to make it. Funny thing was that Stillwell had it a couple years back and I actually preferred my own despite always feeling like I was missing the mark.

My first 5 attempts utilized a sour mash and the recipe for that one is on here also if anyone is interested. My parents and gf gifted me an 11 gallon American Oak barrel for my birthday back in 2017 that I now have committed to a sour barrel and decided it was time to try an authentic take on this beer. This time I wanted to try it without the fruit as I found my last couple batches were overpowering with the additional tartness from the berry.

Heres what's gone through the barrel:
Cab Sauv/Merlot Blend
Belgian Triple w/Big Spruce yeast
Flanders Red
Solera pull and replaced with 5 gallons of sexy Flanders
Sour Doppelbock

Recipe: 11 Gallons
15 lbs PIls
13 lbs Munich
3 lbs Wheat liquid malt extract
2 lbs caramunich 56 SRM
1.5 lbs C10
1.5 lbs C40
1 lbs chocolate malt
1 oz fuggles
German Bock 833 (cannot recall if I used a starter but I assume so)
October Fest 820
Neutral water profile for bocks

Primary in Oak barrel using a basement bedroom in winter to do a quick lager method.
Aged in Barrel at various temps for 9-10 months.

Est. OG 1.084
Measured OG 1.074
Efficiency : 60%

Tasting Notes: I really enjoy this beer, it's definitely a little on the acetic side which is unfortunate because I feel it's the only thing that separates this from some of my favourite sours. It has a complex sourness however it's surprisingly clean in other aspects perhaps given the lower temps that it lived at for the 10 months it sat in the barrel. My intent with the diverse and complex malt bill was to actually leave something behind after the bugs dry everything out so that it still resembles a bock and I think I accomplished that. Writing these types of recipes is a tough balancing act and normally brewers will leave some residual sweetness in the beer which of course is not what's going on here.

Interesting experiment, not one I'll probably invest in again or even be able to recreate.

Thanks and I hope you enjoy!

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by KMcK » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:16 am

Thanks, Glen! I figured it was Dec. 2 in Newfoundland so I tried it tonight. This is very nice.

The sourness is definitely tart, if not acetic. The sourness/tartness overwhelms my nose so I can't comment on the aroma. The flavour is interesting. Despite no fruit I get some fruit taste on the back end. Maybe it's from the wine. Did you do the previous attempts in the same barrel (with fruit)?

I don't get the body/maltiness I'd expect from a bock but maybe the sourness is blinding me to that.

What was your final gravity?

Sadly, my Google search of "sexy Flanders" gave me lots of Simpsons images.
oceanic_brew wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:37 pm
Primary in Oak barrel using a basement bedroom in winter to do a quick lager method.
If I ever have to rent a room from someone I hope it's you.

I did enjoy.
McKeggerator:
  • Rockey's Double IPA
  • Phyl's Double IPA
  • sparkling cascade cider

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by oceanic_brew » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:45 pm

Hahah nice, Kyle!

I did a sour mash with my other attempts. I agree with your analyses of the beer. I think if someone were to market this it would be amiss to call it a bock. The sour process definitely strips most of the malt backbone away regardless of the grain bill and process previous to the barrel.

My plan was actually to back sweeten but it just became to complex an endeavour. I wanted to try achieving something like a lindmans.


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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by oceanic_brew » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:31 pm

This beer pairs insanely well with some aged cheddar or any cheese in general


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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by Buccaneer » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:37 pm

A sour bock, eh? Interesting.

Lovely colour. Dead flat, unfortunately.

Quite an array of aromas - chocolate, fruit, "barrel", mustiness.

Sour, but not overwhelmingly so - more of a delightful puckering. Gives the quite a red wine vibe, really.

Lots of other interesting flavours, although it's a bit of work teasing them out. I'm not so good at describing them. Chocolate, dark fruit, red wine, oak...

Body seems a bit thin for a bock. Nice and smooth, though.

I would definitely try this again. Thanks for sharing!

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by Markus » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:12 pm

Really enjoyed this. Nice tartness although I would love to try your ones with fruit. I tend to like the pucker up tartness. Mine was not overly carbonated but I would say just nice. There was a nice fruit flavour, drawn out of the wood from. the previous red wines. Overall every sip was a nice mouthful of flavour. It did not seem as full as I expect a doppelbock but it didn’t matter to me as I thoroughly enjoyed it. Great job

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by CartoonCod » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:29 pm

Poured with very little carbonation, it is almost still. A bit of vinegar, some sweet dark fruit malt character and a bit of higher alcohols on the nose. Rich dry fruity malt flavour complimented by a tart sourness. A bit boozy. I think this one could benefit from some aging in the bottle to blend some of the characters together. I think it shares more similarities to a Flanders red or brown than a bock. Overall I'm really enjoying this beer. Thanks!

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by oceanic_brew » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:43 pm

Strange with the carb level, carbed to 3 volumes taking into account it being still from a barrel. All the bottles I’ve opened over the last few days were decently carbonated but I’ve kept them between 21-22c

I’m wondering if perhaps I didn’t mix the sugar enough, ah well glad you’re enjoying them regardless.

No surprise on the Flanders since that’s what was in the barrel twice previous to this beer hahah good call!


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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by CartoonCod » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:17 pm

I kept my bottle around 21-23 C as well. I put it in the fridge two days ago, but a day shouldn't have made a difference. It still held its own though despite the low carb. I know some commercial sour beers are served still.

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by ivorm » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:39 pm

Drinking this one now. Unfortunately mine isn't carbed either, there was a little hiss when I opened it, but it poured flat. I did put it in the fridge for a day or two before I saw that it still needed some time to carb so maybe that had something to do with it. Definitely getting the sour flavor, almost tasted like red wine. The no carb actually doesn't seem out of place for this beer. Thanks!

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by PMackie » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:11 am

Mine unfortunately had no carb either. Kept it at room temperature until earlier in the day as well. Otherwise nice beer, not something I have ever had before so wasn't sure what to expect. I defiantly got sour and almost like a red wine flavor. Thanks for the beer.
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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by Halifax_Jeff » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:51 pm

Kept mine at basement temp and it had carbonation but it was low.

Had a red wine thing going on which at first threw me off but I enjoyed it more as it warmed up. There's a lot going on with flavours which I can't describe well other than it was tart and little boozy.Thanks!

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by John G » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:50 pm

Great sour, a touch high acetic for me but lots of other complex flavours in there. I don't taste the base beer at all. It's more like a Flander's Red. I like the woodiness and slight funky nose. Mine was nearly flat - I put it in the fridge Dec 2nd. With more carbonation there would potentially be more aromatics from the malt, yeast and barrel to help balance out the acetic character. I could smell some hints of other ingredients behind the sour.

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by danlatimer » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:29 pm

I really like the smell of this one. I might be biased because mine came out of a duchess bottle but it really does smell like duchess to me haha. Someone above mentioned they were getting some red wine and I agree with that, I definitely get some nice tannins. Took your advice to try it with some cheese and it does make a nice pairing. Thanks Glen!

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by darciandjenn » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:52 am

I guess we lucked out because our bottle was perfectly carbonated. Obviously, not a bock but you're owning that :)

I enjoyed the tartness with this and some vinous qualities as well, though it felt a little one note. I was expecting something more like an Oude Brun, with more malt coming through the tartness.

All in all, a fun beer to try. Cheers!

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by ConanTroutman » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:42 pm

Did you package it with fresh yeast? I like putting in a bit of EC1118 in with my priming solution for long term sours. Helps stave off or at least speed up the aging out of off flavours like THP and makes conditioning time shorter.

For what it's worth mine was perfectly carbed!

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by jmacdonald » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:56 pm

Had this tonight. Low carbonation, was kept at basement temperature and placed in the fridge last night.

As others mentioned it is heavy on the red wine feel. Especially with the low carbonation. Got a bit of harshness in the beginning with a bit of funk, but that went away after warming up. Perfect amount of sour to add a tartness that also pairs well with the red wine flavours. Quite enjoyable!

Thanks for sharing!

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by oceanic_brew » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:20 pm

ConanTroutman wrote:Did you package it with fresh yeast? I like putting in a bit of EC1118 in with my priming solution for long term sours. Helps stave off or at least speed up the aging out of off flavours like THP and makes conditioning time shorter.

For what it's worth mine was perfectly carbed!
Funny, that’s exactly what I use for bottle conditioning. I’ve heard the same thing with THP. I find that fruit additions help clear up THP. Perhaps it’s related to the refermentation.




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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by ConanTroutman » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:35 pm

I think it might be that the fresher yeast might scrub some of the oxygen out quicker as far as the effect on its presence in sours and brett beers. If fruit is kickstarting fermentation off again that might be working on the same principle perhaps.

Also, I'm pretty sensitive to THP and I don't recall picking any up.

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by oceanic_brew » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:54 pm

ConanTroutman wrote:I think it might be that the fresher yeast might scrub some of the oxygen out quicker as far as the effect on its presence in sours and brett beers. If fruit is kickstarting fermentation off again that might be working on the same principle perhaps.

Also, I'm pretty sensitive to THP and I don't recall picking any up.
Right, yeah I am too unfortunately.
The two previous brews that came out of that barrel had THP.
There’s many a commercial sour beers that it took me a while to warm up to, or I should say I just got over the amount of THP on the finish and tried to appreciate the other elements of the beer.


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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by mumblecrunch » Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:13 pm

I agree with those who say it tastes more red wine-y or Flanders Red-y. This is not a bad thing. I get some of the maltiness of a Bock, but very little of the sweetness. I don’t find it particularly acetic, but there’s definitely some there. There’s definitely a fruit presence.

Mine was dead flat and I think I might prefer that to carbonated. A very interesting beer and I’m really thankful that you shared it!


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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by mdentremont » Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:11 pm

Dan and I had this yesterday while brewing some beer. My bottle was very well carbed, I'm guessing 2.5 or higher, it had that super bubbly mouth feel to it.

Everything I've tried that went through that barrel has been great. It had a lot of the same aroma/flavour as your flanders which was one of my faves, and this was right up there as well.

As we were managing two separate boils while drinking this, it didn't get my full attention so I can't wait to open the other you gave me.

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Re: December 2019 Exchange - Dec 2 - "Keep at Room Temp Sour Bock"

Post by amartin » Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:03 pm

I’m still a week behind, so just getting to this now.

I’m liking this one. Mine did pour somewhat flat, but not completely. I’m getting kind of a balsamic vinegar and dark fruit sort of thing going on. The oak is apparent too. Going into it I wasn’t sure if I was going to finish the whole thing, since it was sounding a bit intense and I’m still a little concerned about the heartburn, but this is too good to not finish. I’ll take my chances (and some tums). Thanks!


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