Coffee Bourbon Stout - Kit modification questions

[weir]

My brother-in-law gave me a Muntons Irish Stout kit for Christmas, as appealing as a can of gel mixed with water and sugar sounds, I might as well use it and mix it up a bit to see if I can make something a bit nicer out of it.

These are their instructions for the kit:

1. Stand can in hot water for 5 minutes to soften contents, pour softened contents into primary fermenter.
2. Add 3-1/2 litres of boiling water to the fermenter then add 1kg of corn sugar.
3. Thoroughly mix the contents of the fermenter to fully dissolve the sugar and and malt extract.
4. Add cold water to bring the volume up to 23 litres total.
5. Stir well and then sprinkle in the yeast supplied and stir again.
6. Cover the fermenter, place in a warm area (18-21ºC) until bubbles cease to rise (5-6 days) or FG remains constant below 1.008.
7. Add 1/2 tsp of dextrose per bottle then store for 5 days in warm area. Move to cool area to clear for another 7-10 days.

After doing some reading, a hear a lot of "this is a good kit, drinkable but nothing stellar". So I was considering a few modifications, but being pretty green (this is only my second brew) I wanted some advice before I make a bucket full of gross.

- Use some amount of DME instead of full kg of dextrose. How much DME should I use? I don't think Water n' Wine in New Glasgow carries any but I may be wrong, next time I'm in Halifax for work I was going to stop in NG and grab 1 kg dark DME.

- Use a better yeast than whatever is in the non-descript silver pouch. Here I'm lost, I know there are varying quality levels, but I have no idea what I should use. Or should I just leave the supplied yeast as is? Again, no idea what I can get locally.

- Replace 1 litre of water with 1 litre of cold brewed coffee (4 tbsp coarse ground in cheese cloth w/ 1 litre of boiled and cooled water in the fridge for duration of primary). Infuse 3 shots (6 tbsp) of JD with 3 vanilla beans for duration of primary. Add these to the bucket just before bottling.
I live on coffee and love any coffee porter or stout I've tried, is my coffee adder too much or too little?
As for the bourbon, I have some JD left over from a ham I made at Christmas I figured I'd just use up. Maybe I've just throwing too much in here and this might not mix well with the coffee? Not certain on volume of this either.

- Last thought was topping to 19 litres instead of 23 litres, a lot of people online say it's kind of thin. No clue if this is a good or bad idea though?

[GAM]

My brother-in-law gave me a Muntons Irish Stout kit for Christmas, as appealing as a can of gel mixed with water and sugar sounds, I might as well use it and mix it up a bit to see if I can make something a bit nicer out of it.

These are their instructions for the kit:

1. Stand can in hot water for 5 minutes to soften contents, pour softened contents into primary fermenter.
2. Add 3-1/2 litres of boiling water to the fermenter then add 1kg of corn sugar.
3. Thoroughly mix the contents of the fermenter to fully dissolve the sugar and and malt extract.
4. Add cold water to bring the volume up to 23 litres total.
5. Stir well and then sprinkle in the yeast supplied and stir again.
6. Cover the fermenter, place in a warm area (18-21ºC) until bubbles cease to rise (5-6 days) or FG remains constant below 1.008.
7. Add 1/2 tsp of dextrose per bottle then store for 5 days in warm area. Move to cool area to clear for another 7-10 days.

After doing some reading, a hear a lot of "this is a good kit, drinkable but nothing stellar". So I was considering a few modifications, but being pretty green (this is only my second brew) I wanted some advice before I make a bucket full of gross.

- Use some amount of DME instead of full kg of dextrose. How much DME should I use? I don't think Water n' Wine in New Glasgow carries any but I may be wrong, next time I'm in Halifax for work I was going to stop in NG and grab 1 kg dark DME.

- Use a better yeast than whatever is in the non-descript silver pouch. Here I'm lost, I know there are varying quality levels, but I have no idea what I should use. Or should I just leave the supplied yeast as is? Again, no idea what I can get locally.

- Replace 1 litre of water with 1 litre of cold brewed coffee (4 tbsp coarse ground in cheese cloth w/ 1 litre of boiled and cooled water in the fridge for duration of primary). Infuse 3 shots (6 tbsp) of JD with 3 vanilla beans for duration of primary. Add these to the bucket just before bottling.
I live on coffee and love any coffee porter or stout I've tried, is my coffee adder too much or too little?
As for the bourbon, I have some JD left over from a ham I made at Christmas I figured I'd just use up. Maybe I've just throwing too much in here and this might not mix well with the coffee? Not certain on volume of this either.

- Last thought was topping to 19 litres instead of 23 litres, a lot of people online say it's kind of thin. No clue if this is a good or bad idea though?

There is a lot of options for you to do. My advice is it try one or two steps to improve the kit.
New yeast is an easy one. US-05 or even London or Nottingham.
Replacing the sugar in whole or in part with DME or LME is another easy upgrade. Also boil as large a volume as you can.
I would hold off on the coffee, bourbon and vanilla. You can try that once you get a beer you like.

Feel free to ignore me but making a funky beer may discourage you and 19-23l of beer you don't like is hard to get through.
Good luck and let us know what you do and how it is.

Sandy

[mr x]

I used 2.5 oz of coffee in my oatmeal stout, and I thought it was just right. It was ground, cold steeped, and added to keg.

[derek]

My brother-in-law gave me a Muntons Irish Stout kit for Christmas, as appealing as a can of gel mixed with water and sugar sounds, I might as well use it and mix it up a bit to see if I can make something a bit nicer out of it.
...
- Use some amount of DME instead of full kg of dextrose. How much DME should I use? I don't think Water n' Wine in New Glasgow carries any but I may be wrong, next time I'm in Halifax for work I was going to stop in NG and grab 1 kg dark DME.

I think you need to use about 50% by weight more DME, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong

- Use a better yeast than whatever is in the non-descript silver pouch. Here I'm lost, I know there are varying quality levels, but I have no idea what I should use. Or should I just leave the supplied yeast as is? Again, no idea what I can get locally.

Locally, probably not much. Wyeast recommends any of 1028 - London Ale™, 1056 - American Ale™, 1084 - Irish Ale™, 1275 - Thames Valley Ale™, 1335 - British Ale II™. All of which you should be able to get from Noble Grape - I'd go with the 1084.

- Replace 1 litre of water with 1 litre of cold brewed coffee (4 tbsp coarse ground in cheese cloth w/ 1 litre of boiled and cooled water in the fridge for duration of primary). Infuse 3 shots (6 tbsp) of JD with 3 vanilla beans for duration of primary. Add these to the bucket just before bottling.
I live on coffee and love any coffee porter or stout I've tried, is my coffee adder too much or too little?

My experience with additions like this is that you usually need more than you think you do, so I doubt 1 liter of coffee would be too annoying But then, I don't drink coffee, and have never tried to make a coffee stout. My wife says "oh, that's a great idea, you should make one..." - but she'd have half a glass, and I'd have to drink the rest...

- Last thought was topping to 19 litres instead of 23 litres, a lot of people online say it's kind of thin. No clue if this is a good or bad idea though?

Now that part is easy. The BJCP style guide says that it should have an initial gravity of 1.035 to 1.050 - so basically make it up to 19 liters, measure the SG (with that hydrometer that the guys at Water n' Wine told you you didn't need!) and add more water if you're still over 1.050.

[weir]

I used 2.5 oz of coffee in my oatmeal stout, and I thought it was just right. It was ground, cold steeped, and added to keg.

How much water did you steep that in? I would be bottling this so I'm assuming I can just get the same effect by adding to the bottling bucket?

Now that part is easy. The BJCP style guide says that it should have an initial gravity of 1.035 to 1.050 - so basically make it up to 19 liters, measure the SG (with that hydrometer that the guys at Water n' Wine told you you didn't need!) and add more water if you're still over 1.050.

This is good to know, I saved the guidelines for reference. I'll pick up some 1084 next time I'm on the road too.

[mr x]

Probably used about 1 liter total. I'm not a big fan of 1084 myself, but I know a lot of people like it. If I was using it again, my recipe would have 10% sugar or corn flakes.

[Graham.C]

US05 is good yeast to keep around and IMO is the default upgrade from the foil packs. I keep a couple packs in my fridge at all times in case something goes wrong with my liquid starters. It is always better to go with a specific strain for the type of beer you want to brew, but US05 will give much better results then the foil and I use it for my mocha stout.

Coffee goes a long way in beer. I would start with 1/2 liter, taste and see if you need more. It does fade with time, so if you go over-board you can wait it out. Odds are you don't want to wait. If you really like coffee you probably can't go wrong. If you like coffee but want more stout then coffee I would side on the less, write notes, and add more next time (even if you are doing a partial grain kit in the future the amount of coffee you use in this will probably have the same impact on the future brew).

Hydrometer, yes. Much needed. Finishing at 1.008 is quite low for a stout IMO, unless its low on the booze. You want a bigger mouthfeel in a stout to stand up to the roasty goodness. Adding DME or LME (cheaper) would up the FG to something more reasonable, and overall improve the quality of the brew. I think that is a great idea over corn sugar. In fact I would ditch all the sugar and replace it entirely. Use an online calculator to figure out how much you need. I think the got mead one does malt extract, I forget.

I would skip the vanilla. It goes really far and is very easy to overdo. If you want to see how it would taste, try adding a little extract to your pint when you decant from the bottle. If you like it try a little next time. Soaking it in JB is just like making a weak extract anyways. If you want the bourbon in your stout, then go for it, but I would recommend the same as the vanilla. Try a drop in your pint and see if you want it first, take notes and change the recipe accordingly next time.

One of the best things about homebrewing is being able to add anything you want. Although I would recommend trying to be a bit of a minimalist once in a while just to be sure you know what is bringing what flavors to your beer. Asking here is always a good call, as is searching for the ingredient on here for advice. I know somewhere on here people have talked about how much cold brewed coffee to add, so it might be a good spot to check.

Anyways, that's just my $0.02, others might disagree.

[weir]

It's only going to be my brother and I drinking this likely, we both *like* stout, but aren't huge fans of it. That is to say I would certainly drink it and enjoy some of them, but I wouldn't actively seek it out. My brother in law on the other hand likes stouts so that's why he bought it for me, but he thinks home brewing is gross (don't ask) so I won't be sharing it with him. So that combined with a free $14 kit, is why I'm trying to dress it up.

@Graham (you gave too much advice to quote ), I will probably take your advice on 1/2 litre. The method for cold steeping I found used 1/2 litre for a 5 gallon batch, I thought that was way too low so figured I'd double it, but if coffee goes a long way better to try it lighter to start.

I have no preference between DME or LME, because I've never used either. Any reason to use one or the other? I'd like to achieve that 'mouth feel', I certainly do not enjoy a thin or watery stout. Now I just need some direction on how much of either or to use in place of sugar?

I think I'll just use the coffee and skip the bourbon and vanilla, seems being new that's the best to keep it simple for my first few.

[mr x]

Mouthfeel in stouts is from oats, not from low attenuation. AFAIAC you should be looking for 75%. 1084 would never do that for me, but that was before I discovered the miracle of Alpha Amalyse...

[Graham.C]

Mouthfeel in stouts is from oats, not from low attenuation. AFAIAC you should be looking for 75%. 1084 would never do that for me, but that was before I discovered the miracle of Alpha Amalyse...

Wouldn't using corn surgar make your wart way more fermentable? By replacing the sugar with LME I would think it would come down to something more reasonable like 75%, but I guess that depends on whats in the can to begin with. Oat's are only in some stouts (same with flaked barley), even dry stouts have at least a medium-light mouthfeel. I doubt you would get that with a FG of 1.008, unless you had a very low OG to begin with.

Edit: I don't want to confuse anyone, mouthfeel and attenuation are different as X said, but in this case I think the thinness is coming from a high attenuation.

[mr x]

That's what I meant, flaked barley.

[weir]

You guys just said a lot of words that mean nothing to me . . . HA

[GAM]

You guys just said a lot of words that mean nothing to me . . . HA

He can have that effect.

Sandy

[Graham.C]

You guys just said a lot of words that mean nothing to me . . . HA

sorry

You'll do fine. You have the right ideas, sorry for being confusing.