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Danstar Belle Saison experiment #2. My first go with this yeast yielded a super-high octane saison, so I'm purposely toning it down. Here's the preliminary recipe assuming an 85% attenuation (conservative?)

OG 1.044
FG 1.007
IBU 35~ish

64% Belgian Pils
18% Wheat Malt
12% Special Roast
6% Local Honey (http://www.seasidehoneyfarm.ca/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Not sure of the hops. I was thinking that the tang of the special roast and simcoe would be interesting. Thoughts?

I don't like that much special roast in a saison on sight, but maybe it's good...and I know I'm a broken record about this, but that honey is a waste AFAIAC. Use sugar instead and put the honey on food.

I'm with X on the speical roast and against him on the honey If honey was useless we wouldn't have mead

I'm thinking that Simcoe may clash with that yeast, but I could be completely wrong. I'd personally go with something like Styrian Goldings, Willamette, Nelson Sauvin, or Saaz.

In defense of the Special Roast, my thoughts are to use its tang in place of the acidulated malt/sour mash that I see in a lot of recipes. However, I could probably knock it down by half.

jeffsmith wrote: I'm thinking that Simcoe may clash with that yeast, but I could be completely wrong. I'd personally go with something like Styrian Goldings, Willamette, Nelson Sauvin, or Saaz.

I've never really considered yeast-hop pairing before. Any references I can follow up, or is that intuition? I did see a lot of recipes calling for Styrian Gs and Saaz, but I unfortunately don't have any of those. Originally had been musing about Simcoe @ 60 and EKG late. Would Northern Brewer be considered more appropriate/cleaner @ 60?

Simcoe would definitely work for bittering—it was more intuition than anything. EKG would work well for late addition.

I like the thought behind the use of Special Roast, definitely worth a shot.

I like special roast at 6% much more so than at 12%.

For the honey, IIRC there was a guy in the states making an awesome honey wheat at his brew-pub, and he was using 30% honey. I can't see 6% being of any value over plain sugar. I'd use honey malt....

I've never heard mention of "tang" coming from special roast I've always though it gave a bready biscuity taste but now that you mentioned it I recall my best bitter on tap having what you might say is a tang. Not a bad thing but just different, more research is required!

mr x wrote:
For the honey, IIRC there was a guy in the states making an awesome honey wheat at his brew-pub, and he was using 30% honey. I can't see 6% being of any value over plain sugar. I'd use honey malt....

way back in the day I remember having one downtown (maybe split crow) ,brewed by shippys possibley, that I thought was awesome. Did Greg used to make one? X do you remember the brew pub? I kinda wanna make one now

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

X: Using the honey (late) to add some floral as well lighten it up like sugar would. I worry that 30% would put me into braggot territory.

I recently brewed a similar beer, supposed to be nice session saison, will keg it soon, but it tastes great at the moment.

I used
64% Pilsner
20% Wheat malt
4% Aromatic
4% Amber
8% Belgian candy sugar (clear)

Willamette and Tettnang for hops. Willamette at 60 and flameout, Tettnang at 15.

Not sure I would like Simcoe in a beer like this, but EKG sounds good. The Special roast sounds interesting as well.

dean2k wrote:Thanks for all the feedback guys.

X: Using the honey (late) to add some floral as well lighten it up like sugar would. I worry that 30% would put me into braggot territory.

But if you add the honey to the kettle, any of the floral you could possibly get will be gone. And at 6%, the floral would be non-existant from my experience, and i've adding larger doses of honey after fermentation has pretty much ended.

If I ditch the real honey for the sweetness of honey malt, I could go for a sweet and sour sort of vibe with the special roast. Still stuck on the hops though. Citrusy hops would seem to be appropriate then. Work in progress!

dean2k wrote:Danstar Belle Saison experiment #2. My first go with this yeast yielded a super-high octane saison, so I'm purposely toning it down.

That's my own first experience with this yeast. Had to pour out bottles this week. Will be interested in a success story. Good luck!

Seanstoppable wrote: Had to pour out bottles this week....

dean2k wrote:

Seanstoppable wrote: Had to pour out bottles this week....

Still have a few, 'just in case', but need to use the rest to bottle what should be drinkable beer.

Unless I'm misreading the refractometer, looks like the Belle Saison yeast took right of again. Even listened to X and didn't add the honey. Doesn't look like you need any sugars to get low with this yeast. Define sessionable again?

dean2k wrote:Unless I'm misreading the refractometer, looks like the Belle Saison yeast took right of again. Even listened to X and didn't add the honey. Doesn't look like you need any sugars to get low with this yeast. Define sessionable again?

Hah, same happened with my Saison, used the WLP platinum strain 585 Belgian Saison III. OG 1.073, FG 1.006, will be dangerous. Very nice floral and fruity aromas though, followed by sharp tartness, just like I wanted it, just a bit too boozy.

Are you using the refract for a FG? I could never get that to work....

mr x wrote:Are you using the refract for a FG? I could never get that to work....

Flakey as balls

Transmitted from the hop-phone.

NASH wrote:

mr x wrote:Are you using the refract for a FG? I could never get that to work....

Flakey as balls

Transmitted from the hop-phone.

Flakey balls? Go see a doctor!

Anyhoo.... only 5 or 6 days in so it's not the official FG, and I'll take that with my floating hydrometer. But I use I'll the refractometer to get a ballpark for where things are at. I do like the fact that it's less intrusive, but I hate how I need to convert the brix, do all my calculations, adjust for temp, walk backwards in a circle, sacrifice a pigeon, etc. However, after the last few batches, turns out that the refractometer wasn't broken after all.

In the end, the hydrometer was not lying. Crossing "session" off of the title. Got down to 1.000 again. Not sure if it's the yeast or if my overnight mash is producing too much short-chain sugars. Guess we'll find out when I take a ready of my latest overnight mash not using the Danstar Belle Saison.