Altbier reformulation

[Celiacbrew]

I made this altbier (partially based on a recipe online) and it tastes excellent. I would really like to recreate it using the 2-row I have coming in the group buy.

27% Pilsner
27% Vienna
27% Munich I
18% Caramunich II
<1% carafa II for a smidgen more colour
3oz Northern Brewer split between FWH, 60min, 30min. aimed for 50ish IBU.

The mash was infusion to 62C then decoction to get to 70ish and another decoction to mash out. Time was around 1:30 at 62ish because I miscalculated my first attempt at a decoction and it didn't move the temperature.

Yeast was US-05 fermented at ambient (roughly 16-17C) in my basement.

Taste of the beer is quite unique. I was extremely disappointed on the first sip, it was like bitter brown water. Then the maltiness slowly crept in and the beer took on some shape. It is quite bitter and quite dry. Very thin body. But lots of malt flavour that is like the unsweet version of an old school Frosty from Wendy's.

So does anyone have any advice on how to best replicate this using the 2-row and munich1 I have coming in the group buy. I was thinking I could add something like melanoiden malt or maybe one of the English malts that have those bready flavours. Is there anything I should do to my mash to help bring out the maltiness? And last question, when I made this originally, it was supposed to be pilsner malt and munich for the base, but I realized on brew day that my calculations were off, so I bought 3 pounds of Vienna assuming it was in the middle between the two so it would keep my ratio correct, does that actually work or did I create a different flavour from what I had intended?

[dean2k]

I'm going to chime in here just because I'm a fan of altbiers, not because I pretend to know what I'm talking about. But what I suspect is that you can do a 1:1 swap out of pils for 2 row because all that munich, vienna, and caramunich (18% - really? wow seems like a lot) will dominate the base grain anyway.

Cheers

[jeffsmith]

I'm going to chime in here just because I'm a fan of altbiers, not because I pretend to know what I'm talking about. But what I suspect is that you can do a 1:1 swap out of pils for 2 row because all that munich, vienna, and caramunich (18% - really? wow seems like a lot) will dominate the base grain anyway.

[Celiacbrew]

I'm going to chime in here just because I'm a fan of altbiers, not because I pretend to know what I'm talking about. But what I suspect is that you can do a 1:1 swap out of pils for 2 row because all that munich, vienna, and caramunich (18% - really? wow seems like a lot) will dominate the base grain anyway.

Cheers

The recipe I adapted had more caramunich (~23%), I thought it was too high but it tastes nice. Worked out though because it isn't sweet. I really like this beer.
https://byo.com/stories/item/1205-old-world-alt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seeing as you have experience with Alts, does that vienna I put in make a difference or should I drop it in favour of more 2-row and Munich?

[dean2k]

Seeing as you have experience with Alts, does that vienna I put in make a difference or should I drop it in favour of more 2-row and Munich?

Confession: I've never brewed with Vienna (yet). Are you doing the Sly Fox recipe in that link? I know you adapted, but the recipe calls for Vienna or Munich, whereas your recipe is using both. I've only brewed Jamil's dusseldorf and used Munich only. Also, the base grain in the Sly Fox accounts for 2/3 of the grist.

[jtmwhyte]

I've made my alt with 89% Munich II, 9% caramunich and 3% midnight wheat with Spalt Select and US-05 and I love it.

[Celiacbrew]

The one I adapted is the Sticke just below the sly fox. I might brew this again twice and sub all the vienna for 2-row and then all for munich and compare the two to the original. See if I can pick out the taste difference.

Was Jamils dusseldorf any good? Do you know the recipe?

[Celiacbrew]

I've made my alt with 89% Munich II, 9% caramunich and 3% midnight wheat with Spalt Select and US-05 and I love it.

With all that munich 2 do you have to do anything special during the mash?

[dean2k]

Oh the Sticke. That's a whole other beast. I've drank a few but never brewed any. Prefer 'regular' altbiers, personally. I think the JZ recipe is one of the best beers I've ever made at home. Here's a link but I don't know if the ingredients are 100% the same. Also, I substituted the carafa for cold-steep chocolate (400L)

http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/ ... -all-grain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jtmwhyte]

I've made my alt with 89% Munich II, 9% caramunich and 3% midnight wheat with Spalt Select and US-05 and I love it.

With all that munich 2 do you have to do anything special during the mash?

I've not. I just did a single infusion BIAB at 152 degrees for 1 hour

[Celiacbrew]

Oh the Sticke. That's a whole other beast. I've drank a few but never brewed any. Prefer 'regular' altbiers, personally. I think the JZ recipe is one of the best beers I've ever made at home. Here's a link but I don't know if the ingredients are 100% the same. Also, I substituted the carafa for cold-steep chocolate (400L)

http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/ ... -all-grain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does it makes sense that that recipe is using aromatic (or melanoidin malt) to get the taste you get from having more munich in it. So maybe that is the way for me to go when I get my 2-row from the group buy. Buy a few pounds from Dave and stash them with the rest of my grain. A lot cheaper that way than the $30 a batch I have been paying.

I also didn't realize there was so much difference between the Sticke and the Sly Fox, but rereading the article and what you said about the caramunich it all makes sense now.

jtmwhyte - I think I will have to try your recipe too and see how things change when it is mostly Munich. Any suggestions of what to sub for the wheat? Is it there for the colour or is it something more important? I have Carafa II on hand that I use to add colour. I also might try dropping the decoction mashing, its a lot of work.

[GasMD30]

Found this on the BYO website the other night (last recipe):
https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1873 ... ew-recipes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I might try this?