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So I've been really kicking the can at attempting this black IPA again and have been thinking of what hops I'd like to use. After looking around I've decided to use Nelson Sauvin and Mandarina Bavaria hops. After my first batch this style intimidates me a bit. Would someone take a look at the below recipe and let me know of any adjustments I should make?

Recipe: Nelson Mandarina - Black IPA
Brewer: Keith Forbes
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 31.10 l
Post Boil Volume: 24.44 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 22.00 l
Bottling Volume: 19.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 26.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 65.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 77.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
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Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) CDN (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 84.2 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 3.5 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.5 %
6.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.6 %
6.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.6 %
8.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 6 3.5 %
0.80 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 29.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 m Hop 8 9.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 13.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 mi Hop 10 5.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 7.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 mi Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 13 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs 4.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 36.92 l of water at 160.5 F 152.1 F 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

Personally, I'd drop the chocolate & black patent, and use carafa or similar for color.

Jimmy wrote:Personally, I'd drop the chocolate & black patent, and use carafa or similar for color.

+1

Jimmy wrote:Personally, I'd drop the chocolate & black patent, and use carafa or similar for color.

I have Carafa III @ home.

I'd definitely drop the roast malts too, in exchange for carafa. The roast should be fairly subdued, otherwise you'll be making something more like an American stout. That could be fun too though, I might be making one this year.

If it was me, I'd probably drop both the carapils and the corn sugar. The carapils will add more sweetness, body, and head retention compared to pale malt, and the sugar will add less. I don't see the need for both, unless there's some other reason you have for adding them.

amartin wrote:I'd definitely drop the roast malts too, in exchange for carafa. The roast should be fairly subdued, otherwise you'll be making something more like an American stout. That could be fun too though, I might be making one this year.

If it was me, I'd probably drop both the carapils and the corn sugar. The carapils will add more sweetness, body, and head retention compared to pale malt, and the sugar will add less. I don't see the need for both, unless there's some other reason you have for adding them.

I put Carapils in all my beers and they all have amazing head retention, which is the reason for this. As the sugar just a spike in ABV and to try it out slightly as I'm not mashing low.

Why not mash lower and drop the sugar all together?

jeffsmith wrote:Why not mash lower and drop the sugar all together?

Want body on the beer. Won't get the body I want mashing at 149, aiming for 152-153.

Keith wrote:

jeffsmith wrote:Why not mash lower and drop the sugar all together?

Want body on the beer. Won't get the body I want mashing at 149, aiming for 152-153.

Fair enough. I always mash my IPAs at 149.

Subbing in sugar for some of the malt is already thinning the body. If you replace it with pale malt, it will go up and compensate for the lower mash temperature.

amartin wrote:Subbing in sugar for some of the malt is already thinning the body. If you replace it with pale malt, it will go up and compensate for the lower mash temperature.

Yea i'm mashing higher to compensate for this a bit, but still gain the body on my beer and want a dryer finish if this makes any sense.

jeffsmith wrote:

Keith wrote:

jeffsmith wrote:Why not mash lower and drop the sugar all together?

Want body on the beer. Won't get the body I want mashing at 149, aiming for 152-153.

Fair enough. I always mash my IPAs at 149.

Yea I typically do as well, just want to try something a bit different with this beer.

Keith wrote:

amartin wrote:Subbing in sugar for some of the malt is already thinning the body. If you replace it with pale malt, it will go up and compensate for the lower mash temperature.

Yea i'm mashing higher to compensate for this a bit, but still gain the body on my beer and want a dryer finish if this makes any sense.

Ok, I get it. In that case, I'd swap the carapils out for a head grain, maybe malted wheat. It would add protein instead of dextrins, which would fill the body out a little instead of adding sweetness.

I wouldn't waste the nelson on bittering, use a standard clean bittering hop like magnum instead.

LiverDance wrote:I wouldn't waste the nelson on bittering, use a standard clean bittering hop like magnum instead.

No magnum, but I'll swap it to warrior. and will remove the chocolate and black patent and sub for Carafa III.