(Belgian) Imperial Stout

[Lucas]

I'm planning an imperial stout and I thought I'd see what everybody thinks of the plan so far. Whenever I've brewed dark beers in the past I haven't been fully happy with the roast character - the beers have always been dark enough but have lacked a strong backbone roasty flavour. At the same time, I am weary of throwing in too much dark malt and producing something too astringent. Please let me know if you think the dark malts need adjusting. I'd like to use a Belgian yeast (Wyeast 1762 is what I have in mind) to add some plum/raisiny esters and the idea behind the Styrian Goldings hops is some spicy complexity. I'm not a big fan of American hops and Belgian yeast together. The torrified wheat is for mouthfeel and head retention.

OG 1.085

74% Maris Otter
10% Torrified Wheat
6.2% Special B
3.7% Chocolate Malt
3.7% Roasted Barley
2.5% Black Malt

60 IBUs Magnum @ 60 minutes
6 IBUs Styrian Goldings @ 5 minutes (rate of 2oz/5 gallon)

Single Infusion Mash @ 150F (65.5C)
I am thinking a 90 or 120 minute boil might suit this beer well, but I'm not sure. I would imagine imperial stouts were boiled for a very long time historically. Is it necessary? Thoughts?

Predicted Stats (Beersmith):
FG: 1.018
Color: 88 EBC
ABV: 8.9%

Thanks for taking a look, throw any suggestions my way!

[jason.loxton]

Perhaps related: I brewed up this Peche Mortel clone a few years ago and it turned out very well. (In future iterations, I might have upped the coffee a bit.) I used Wyeast 1762, after exchanging emails with the brewmaster at Dieu Du Ciel. I think I might have added ground coffee at flame out, rather than instant, but I can't remember. The recipe was designed by Scott Russell.

OG: 1086 – 90
target TG: 1018 – 22
expected abv: 8.5 – 9%
IBU’s: 125

12 lbs. Maris Otter 2-row pale malt
1 lb. torrefied wheat
1/2 lb. chocolate malt
1/2 lb. roasted barley
1 lb. dark crystal malt (120°L)
1/2 lb. coarsely ground French roast coffee beans
21.2 IBU’s Northern Brewer hop pellets (2 oz. @10.6% aa)
12.5 IBU’s Galena hop pellets (1 oz. @12.5% aa)
5.1 IBU’s Tettnang hop pellets (1 oz. @5.1% aa)
3 cups Dieu Du Ciel yeast slurry (recultured)
2/3 cup dry malt extract for priming
3 tbsp. dark roast instant coffee

http://www.vthomebrewguru.com/to-clone-a-sin/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lucas]

Yes Jason, that is the recipe that I started from! I am not planning on adding coffee at the moment, but I am thinking about it.

[robcoombs]

I think if you're brewing a Belgian imperial stout you're not really looking for a strong roast character. It would muttle what you'll get from a Belgian yeast strain. I brewed something similar last winter. I also added D90 to enhance some raisin and dark fruit character.

If you want a super roasty imperial stout without astringncy you could cold steep your grains. Or use dehusked grain like carafa special or midnight wheat.

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk

[jason.loxton]

The recipe was good as is. I remember wanting to make some tweaks, but it was years back and I don't have notes any more. We did a side by side test with Peche Mortel and this was pretty close. Not a clone, but a very similar beer. If you like Peche Mortel, you'll like this. Peche Mortel has big coffee. I don't know how it or this recipe would be stripped of the coffee.

[Lucas]

Perhaps you are right robcoombs, maybe I should leave out the black malt. I do love Peche Mortel - that is of course how I found that recipe in the first place. However, I'd like to try it without the coffee. Maybe the black malt would actually kind of make up for that? 1/2 lb of coffee seems huge.

[jason.loxton]

Actually, too LITTLE coffee was what the brewmaster at Peche Mortel commented on the recipe. When you think about it, if you used 200 grams of grinds to brew 5 gallons of coffee, it would be barely muddy water. Peche Mortel is a big assed coffee stout. It really needs those beans!

Here's the reply I got when I emailed a few years with a link to this recipe:

"I'm surprise and please to see people try to clone our Péché Mortel. I can
say this clone is good start but there is not enought coffee... Take note
that we use bottling yeast. Not to protect our yeast to be propagate but
because we use a yeast for bottling that work better for refermentration
than the yeasts we used for our main fermentation.

Santé

JF

Jean-Francois Gravel
Maitre Brasseur et co-fondateur
Brasserie Dieu du Ciel!
Montréal/St-Jérôme
Québec
Canada"

[jason.loxton]

Found the old email thread I had with Scott Russell. I did a flame out addition on the coffee.

[Lucas]

Interesting, this really has the gears turning in my head. Certainly for a flameout addition you would need plenty of coffee. Interesting too that adding the coffee at flameout would imitate french press. I don't know about mashing the coffee as in Scott Russell's original recipe because I would think that the mash temperature wouldn't be ideal for extraction and that boiling the coffee would not really be great for the flavour. I have often seen recipes with coffee added after fermentation in a mesh bag, and I have read that it is easy to use too much when using this method (but maybe not for an imperial stout).

All this talk about the coffee makes me wonder if I want to try it after all...

[jason.loxton]

If you're interested, here's the old exchange I had with Russell. In the future, I probably do either espresso shots or cold extract.

Read in reverse order:

Scott: Sounds like a good yeast choice - relatively fruity without all the "Belgian" esters...
The way I see it on the coffee, you're not re-boiling already made potentially stale coffee, but infusing fresh coffee into another liquid.... you will lose the aromatics in the boil, but not the bitterness, and that's why I added the other coffee later on... Good luck - I'll update o this evening's tasting, providing we don't get another earthquake...

Me: P.s. What is really freaking me out is experience warming up coffee on
a stove. In the event that you accidently let it hit a boil, man is
awful! Obviously, this isn't directly analogous since the coffee will
be relatively dilute in the wort. Still, we do two-step stove top all
grain, and it takes upwards of 40 minutes to reach boil, followed by a
60 minute boil. That makes me cautious. Hmmm... to experiment or
chicken out and go later addition?

Jason Quoting Scott <scott@vthomebrewguru.com>:

> Hi Jason - well alright! Sinning in Halifax tonight!
> I added coffee at two different places, in part because of the
> concerns you read about, and in part just because when I went to
> bottle it it just didn't have enough of a coffee kick to it, for
> me... so there were crushed coffee beans in the mash (I wanted a
> deep bitter coffee flavor), but I also "cheated" and used a couple
> single-serve sachets of Starbucks instant coffee in with the priming
> sugar. Have to taste one tonight, it's been a couple weeks... see
> how it's evolving. So you're using the DDC yeast, despite what we
> learned, or did you opt for a different yeast choice?
> Check the site later today, brewing another big stout this morning...
> best,
> Scott
>
> In the Beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the
> Expert's, there are few.
> -Thich Nhat Hanh

> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Jason Loxton <jason.loxton@DAL.CA>
>> To: Scott Russell <naclones@yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Thu, June 24, 2010 11:36:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Guru] Peche Mortel
>>
>> Hey Scott,
>
> Got my starter all grown up, and I am going to brew up the
>> Peche clone tonight. I am having some second thoughts about mash
>> addition of the
>> coffee though. From reading online, it seems that many people are concerned
>> about either losing volatile compounds in the boil (aroma, flavour)
>> or producing
>> "old coffee" flavour and astringency. Obviously, you prefer the
>> mash method--and
>> I am attracted to it because of its general coolness!--but I am
>> wondering what
>> your thoughts were here, why you chose it over cold extraction and late
>> (secondary?) addition, etc.
>
>
> Cheers!
>
> Jason

[Lucas]

Thanks for posting all of your correspondence regarding this beer Jason. I'm glad to know that someone here has already tried the base recipe with Wyeast 1762 and enjoyed it. Any minor tweaks I make shouldn't change that.