Introduction to BIAB (How to BIAB)

Discuss all things BIAB (Brew In A Bag)
Beaton1T
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by Beaton1T » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:48 am

GuingesRock wrote:I noticed what I thought were some negative misconceptions about BIAB in this thread.

Has anyone listened to Pat Hollingdale’s podcast on the BeerSmith site? He is Australian and one of the pioneers of BIAB.
http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/02/24/br ... odcast-10/

Pat has a mate called Bob Stemski in the US who made a short video on BIAB. Good video and funny, especially his little dance at the end. He also discusses the Australian No-Chill method.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9hpU3iw ... e=youtu.be

I gave up “pulling the bag” as it makes a mess (I brew in the kitchen), and instead I drain the wort from the ball valve through a silicone tube into another pot. Different version of BIAB hybrid I suppose, from the one in your video (nice video). I don’t insulate the mash in the first pot as I don’t think it is necessary but most people wrap the pot. An old parker works well.
Just listened to the podcast and really enjoyed the discussion with Pat Hollingdale. I'm considering BIAB with a keggle as my transition to All-Grain, but I've read many comments on different forums about efficiency being a downside of BIAB. It was interesting to hear about Pat's results and that of the Aussie Homebrew community.

The video was brief but funny too!

Thanks for the links!
- TJ

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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by GuingesRock » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:30 pm

I think the "efficiency downside" might be a misconception but I don't want to start a war as it is a touchy subject. Pat Hollingndale addressed that in his podcast. He is a 3 vessel brewer turned BIAB brewer. It's a question that will be asked again and again I think. To avoid a row I might suggest that there is not enough difference to be worth discussing it. It's interesting that BIAB people try to avoid even the smallest of sparges because it might reduce their efficiency by a couple of points. Three vessel people on the other hand like to sparge, and resist full volume mashing for fear that it might affect efficiency. It's a different perspective. If you have to put an extra handful or two of grain in for one method versus another method, is that really worth worrying about. If you did both methods you may find BIAB more efficient or less efficient. I think it depends on brewer technique and equipment more than the method per se.

If you read on a forum that BIAB is less efficient. Check first that the poster has ever done a BIAB brew, or several BIAB brews, so there is a better chance he might know what he is talking about :)

Malt isn't gold dust. It is 99 cents a pound from OBK. What I think is a bigger issue is how much do you value your time? If you can make the same quality beer, and take an hour or two off your brew day by doing BIAB, how much is that worth to you?
Last edited by GuingesRock on Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by sleepyjamie » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:40 pm

How high of efficiency really only matters when you are brewing large scale or have high grain costs.

For the average brewer doing 5-10 gallons 75-80% efficiency is good enough.

Biab offers this efficiency range with no negative effects versus traditional methods.
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by derek » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:58 pm

GuingesRock wrote:I noticed what I thought were some negative misconceptions about BIAB in this thread.
There's only one guy in this thread who has anything negative to say, and his points are all valid (except I don't think I'd have the nerve to brew with water out of my domestic water-heater! Perhaps with modern plumbing and heaters, it's safer, but water from the hot-side always used to be considered non-potable. Anyway, that's not relevant to the use of BIAB).

A great many of us are BIABers. The site owner/admin is Mr. http://www.biab-brewing.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;!
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by sleepyjamie » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:57 pm

I've brewed with hot water from my tank.
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by GuingesRock » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:22 pm

derek wrote:
GuingesRock wrote:I noticed what I thought were some negative misconceptions about BIAB in this thread.
There's only one guy in this thread who has anything negative to say, and his points are all valid (except I don't think I'd have the nerve to brew with water out of my domestic water-heater! Perhaps with modern plumbing and heaters, it's safer, but water from the hot-side always used to be considered non-potable. Anyway, that's not relevant to the use of BIAB).

A great many of us are BIABers. The site owner/admin is Mr. http://www.biab-brewing.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;!
That’s great! as a BIABer I feel more at home now :)

I knew Becky and Jimmy before I knew of the Brewnosers. I got my BIAB bags from them from the beginning, I think I have at least four of them now. Don’t know, but maybe because they were so nice, friendly and helpful, made me want to join this site.
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by Beaton1T » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:47 pm

GuingesRock wrote:I think the "efficiency downside" might be a misconception but I don't want to start a war as it is a touchy subject. Pat Hollingndale addressed that in his podcast. He is a 3 vessel brewer turned BIAB brewer. It's a question that will be asked again and again I think. To avoid a row I might suggest that there is not enough difference to be worth discussing it. It's interesting that BIAB people try to avoid even the smallest of sparges because it might reduce their efficiency by a couple of points. Three vessel people on the other hand like to sparge, and resist full volume mashing for fear that it might affect efficiency. It's a different perspective. If you have to put an extra handful or two of grain in for one method versus another method, is that really worth worrying about. If you did both methods you may find BIAB more efficient or less efficient. I think it depends on brewer technique and equipment more than the method per se.

If you read on a forum that BIAB is less efficient. Check first that the poster has ever done a BIAB brew, or several BIAB brews, so there is a better chance he might know what he is talking about :)

Malt isn't gold dust. It is 99 cents a pound from OBK. What I think is a bigger issue is how much do you value your time? If you can make the same quality beer, and take an hour or two off your brew day by doing BIAB, how much is that worth to you?
I think you make a good point that extra grain won't break the bank and that your time should really be considered as a great advantage of BIAB. As I mentioned in my last post, I've never done BIAB, but I have been trying to get the most information about it before going all-grain. I do have a keg yet to be converted to a keggle, and I know that this conversion is going to cost a little bit of money. To me, it seems like a very economical way to brew because of the equipment cost, but it also seems a bit more time efficient. At the moment, I'm more interested in stepping up my game with brewing all-grain than I am in efficiency, especially because I have no plans to do any big beers.
- TJ

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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by GuingesRock » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:03 pm

Beaton1T wrote:...especially because I have no plans to do any big beers.
My BIAB beers lately have been 8% and my next one planned is 9%. I like them, but also, talking about time efficiency, if you make an 8% beer, you drink half as much (In theory anyway) as you would a 4% beer. That means you brew less often. Also brewing 10 gallons takes the same amount of time as it does to brew 5 gallons. So a brewer who brews 10 gallons of 8% beer spends one quarter of the time brewing than does his friend who brews 5 gallons of 4% beer. It all helps when you have to keep your extended family in beer too, and you have thirsty friends.
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by GAM » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:39 am

I have been thinking of doing extract additions and topping up with water to maximize the pot space.

Anyone do this?

Sandy

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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by GuingesRock » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:09 am

GAM wrote:I have been thinking of doing extract additions and topping up with water to maximize the pot space.

Anyone do this?

Sandy
Sandy I tried that and it worked ok, basically it was a half allgrain/half extract, but I think you are better having a large grain bill and doing a maxi-BIAB that incorporates a small sparge (dunk sparge or otherwise) if your pot isn't big enough. My reasons are that extract is expensive and it is a pain to dissolve, the taste was not quite as good as the all-grain but that's a subjective thing. You probably know it is quite acceptable to throw in a bit of dextrose to reach those very high ABVs but I think not supposed to be more than 10% of the grain bill.

I wrote a thread on this on my old site. There are comments from others on there too which might help you. http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2004
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by GAM » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:42 am

I was thinking of a late addition of 10-15l dissolved lme just to max the out put of my keggle.

I will try the high gravity and sparge (I do drain the bag and I have tried a small sparge) to max out production.

I have limited brew time and BIAB has shortened the brew day. I could easily get 40l, with a mash tun, now 30-35l is all I can do.

5% is as big a beer as I make and usually 3-5% is preferable.

Sandy

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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by pet lion » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:47 am

I was doing the partial mash method for a while using late addition extract additions. Made plenty of good beers that way. Actually my spruce IPA brew last night was too as I wanted to try to get a good final volume and my maxi-BIAB usually gets me only about 17-18 L for an average gravity beer.
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by pet lion » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:48 am

But it did remind me how much more expensive extract is to grain when I grabbed the ingredients.
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by Woody » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:48 pm

Really enjoying the discussion, ideas and techniques others are using for BIAB. After waiting for items to be delivered for the AG set up I actually got around to my first AG BIAB Monday night. Flying Monkey clone of the Cascadian Dark Ale (Netherworld). Way too much fun. I was a little slow so I am looking forward to seeing the time savings after a few more batches. I did a mash out which I see now is not necessary for the BIAB. It was only for 10 minutes so no big deal. Last month I got the KAB6 and this burner is a beast. Not so great on propane but I get it at Costco so who cares. The KAB6 froze my first propane tank after 45 mins into the boil so I was glad to have a second on hand.

The wort smelled amazing when I was done. I ended up using just under 15 lbs or grain per Beersmith and used 37 liters of water which ended up giving me a little too much wort with a gravity of 1.05. Lesson learned I will use less water next time. I was getting used to hitting the temperatures and used a little cold water as I was over in temp etc. I've figured out my system so I should be quicker with the next brew. One mistake I made when ordering my 15 g pot from OBK was going with a 6 inch temperature probe. I made a very small hole in the bag and had no issues with tearing or removing it from the pot. Not much room to spare with my wort chiller but it worked. Enjoyed every second of the process. Thanks to all the Brewnosers for tips, hardware and places to get deals. The beast that is home brewing. Love it!!!

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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by LeafMan66_67 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:16 am

Sounds like you had a blast! Once you figure out your boil off rate, the water amount will fall into place for you. Enjoy! I certainly do!

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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by GuingesRock » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:43 am

Derek, Nice post! it got me all “geed up” for my brew tomorrow, which is a hoppy boozy version of Proper Job. I have two of those long stem thermometers kicking around if you want any more, made the same mistake with my first 9 gal OBK pots. Now have 16 gal pots with short stem thermometers, different make to OBK, but I find I can only use those installed thermometers as a rough guide though for when you are getting near the temp you want. I had another thermometer to put in the top but recently ordered a Thermapen from here (I saw that quite a few people on here use them) it arrived yesterday and it looks like just the thing.
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by Woody » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:17 pm

Mark & Derek it was a blast. Mark thanks for the tip. I do have a second digital temperature gage I got at Walmart. Works pretty good and you are right it was more accurate than the one on the pot. The one on the pot showed warmer that it actually was. I may have to upgrade to the Thermapen at some point. Thanks for the offer on the temp probes but I think I'll pick up a 2 inch one sometime in the future. Even with the small hole in the bag a little grain does get into the boil. Your Proper Job sounds great from your other posts. I have a hoppy American Pale Ale and English Brown on deck.

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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by ottiscan » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:10 am

Hi Jimmy,

I bought one of the bags a week and a half or so ago.
We pushed the bag to the limit last weekend and it performed fine. We did a condensed 15 gal. batch with a whopping 34 pds of grain in the bag. Was shooting for a OG of 1.061 and reached 1.052.

Would like to have a good, and inexpensive, design for a tripod to hoist the grain bag above the kettle if someone might have any ideas. I have a good pulley system with a fidlle block that works great, just need a better tripod.
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by GuingesRock » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:18 am

You don't have two step ladders that you could straddle a plank between?

...found a pic of a basic tripod on the internet.
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by ottiscan » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:22 am

Thanks,
I only have one step ladder and it's only 6". That picture looks good, my main concern is how it connects at the top.

Thanks

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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by GuingesRock » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:25 am

I think an engine hoist would be great too for really big malt bills, as you could wheel it out of the way when drained. :)

It looks like they have run a single bolt loosely through three 2x4s at the top. They could also be tied together at the top with some rope.
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by ottiscan » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:04 am

That would be good! I agree that lashing the tops would probably be the easiest route to go.

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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by GuingesRock » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:15 am

I made a "wigwam" for my little boy like that at Christmas with 2x4s. If you lash loosely about 9 - 12" from the top, the lashings tighten up as you spread the legs, and the whole thing becomes quite stable.
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by GuingesRock » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:34 pm

ottiscan built a nice rig:http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... 078#p66866

Just found a step ladder picture using one tall step ladder (I think he needs to use the top rungs):
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Re: Introduction to BIAB

Post by RubberToe » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:16 pm

Is that brew going to be bad luck? ;)
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