Some thoughts on Engineers

[GuingesRock]

From the way you responded I am thinking you are an engineer so maybe you can help me get my head around this.

Even Rob is not arrogant enough to be an Engineer!

Sandy

Sandy, I came across your post today, you crack me up every time. Keep them coming. You know, and I know, that if you meet X in person, he's one of the nicest and least arrogant people you could meet. Jimmy told me that his posts are short and to the point because he doesn't often have access to a computer, and has to post on his phone.

Celiacbrew, Rob (X) is a stationary engineer. It says on the what's your job thread. It's worth looking at that thread, because, for example, if Rob (X) says something should be done a certain way in that department, it should be done that way. Sandy is some kind of telephone engineer, well respected and I get the impression the whole antiquated phone system would collapse without him. NASH is a commercial brewer with a very impressive résumé. Everyone here is an expert in their field and knows what they are up to, but all we really want to do is just damn well brew. What's your job BTW (you don't have to say) but your posts are very insightful and you have a keen interest in beer.

As for Engineers being arrogant, I think doctors are supposed to trump that ..."I'm a physician, I'm a physician" Maybe professors are the same. It doesn't seem like arrogance and brewing go together though. Maybe being down to earth and genuine does. That's my impression from here.

As for me ...I'm drinking my fucked up beer, writing crap (we don't watch TV), and realizing that the beer wasn't actually fucked up at all, it was just my brain that was well maybe one batch didn't work out. I learnt a lot from that thread though. Thanks

[Celiacbrew]

Celiacbrew, Rob (X) is a stationary engineer. It says on the what's your job thread. It's worth looking at that thread, because, for example, if Rob (X) says something should be done a certain way in that department, it should be done that way. Sandy is some kind of telephone engineer, well respected and I get the impression the whole antiquated phone system would collapse without him. NASH is a commercial brewer with a very impressive résumé. Everyone here is an expert in their field and knows what they are up to, but all we really want to do is just damn well brew. What's your job BTW (you don't have to say) but your posts are very insightful and you have a keen interest in beer.

I will check out that thread. I think my profession is the most arrogant one of all. I talk about things I know nothing about for a living, aka a government economist.

I had a pretty good suspicion that Mr. X was an engineer from his responses, not that they were short but that they are technically sound and very precise. Its just the way engineers speak. Kind of like how people from my profession speak in impenetrable jargon and buzzwords.

I finally figured out what I did wrong with my calculations, someone on reddit pointed it out. I wasn't factoring for CO2s solubility changing with temp. So even though the amount dissolved is related to its partial pressure in the headspace, the relationship changes a lot between 0c and 30c.

[GAM]

I love my antiquated TelCom systems. I'm no Engineer but I do yell logic at them when ever I can.

No disrespect to Engineers, I know and work well with lots of them.

Sandy

[chalmers]

Sorry for moving these posts, I wanted to keep the Growler thread on topic.

[Celiacbrew]

Sorry for moving these posts, I wanted to keep the Growler thread on topic.

No apology necessary. You were just doing what mods are supposed to do. I have a habit of derailing conversations so its good to have someone bring them back. Kind of wish I had a mod to follow me around in real life.

[GAM]

Chris, lets start crapping on tech's. Most are too lazy to fight back.

Sandy

[chalmers]

Chris, lets start crapping on tech's. Most are too lazy to fight back.

Sandy

Not lazy to fight back, too busy doing actual work!
At least that's my excuse, as I spend week 5 of 10 on the road, with no more than two nights in a row at home.

Five points to whomever can identify where I am right now.

[Bluefin 774]

You were at Memorial University in Newfoundland.

[CorneliusAlphonse]

What he said. The pedway over that bigger road. Damn fence in the middle....

[chalmers]

You were at Memorial University in Newfoundland.

We have a winner! Now, what did I have for lunch?

[GuingesRock]

You were at Memorial University in Newfoundland.

We have a winner! Now, what did I have for lunch?

Fish and brews and scruntions, or just fish and chips.

I might have just had a Newfoundlander in the office

[LeafMan66_67]

Chris, lets start crapping on tech's. Most are too lazy to fight back.

Sandy

Not lazy to fight back, too busy doing actual work!

+1 to that!

[GAM]

Now I did say most.

Sandy

[bluenose]

I love my antiquated TelCom systems. I'm no Engineer but I do yell logic at them when ever I can.

No disrespect to Engineers, I know and work well with lots of them.

Sandy

If something works in the real world, ask an engineer if it'll work in theory

[GuingesRock]

I always thought the engineer's ring was a noble concept and tradition. You'll usually see engineers wearing them on their little finger. We should have something like that for brewers.

The Engineer's Ring is a ring worn by members of the United States Order of the Engineer, a fellowship of engineers who must be a certified Professional Engineer or graduated from an accredited engineering program (or be within one academic year of graduation to participate). [1] The ring is usually a stainless steel band worn on the little finger of the dominant hand.[2] This is so that it makes contact with all work done by the engineer. Rings used to be cast in iron in the most unattractive and simple form to show the nature of work. The ring is symbolic of the oath taken by the wearer, and symbolizes the unity of the profession in its goal of benefitting mankind. The stainless steel from which the ring is made depicts the strength of the profession. [3]

Based upon the original Canadian Iron Ring ceremony, engineers receive the ring after taking an oath known as The Obligation of The Engineer,[4] during a ring ceremony. Only those who have met the high standards of professional engineering training or experience are able to accept the Obligation, which is voluntarily received for life. This commitment is not a trivial act but is rather like the wedding of the engineer with the best tenets of their profession.[citation needed]

The required oath, taken immediately before accepting the Engineer's Ring, is known as "The Obligation of the Engineer" and is as follows:


I am an Engineer.

In my profession I solve practical problems. To it I owe solemn obligations.

Since the Stone Age, Human Progress has been spurred by the Engineering Genius. Engineers have made usable Nature's vast resources of Materials and Energy for Humanity's Benefit.

Engineers have vitalized and turned to practical use the Principles of Science and the Means of Technology. Were it not for this heritage of accumulated experiences, my efforts would be feeble.

As an engineer, I, (full name), pledge to practice Integrity and Fair Dealing, Tolerance, and Respect, and to uphold devotion to the standards and dignity of my profession, conscious always that my skill carries with it the obligation to serve humanity by making best use of the Earth's precious wealth.

As an engineer, I shall participate in none but honest enterprises. When needed, my skill and knowledge shall be given without reservation for the public good. In the performance of duty, and in fidelity to my profession, I shall give the utmost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer's_Ring" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GuingesRock]

I always thought the engineer's ring was a noble concept and tradition. You'll usually see engineers wearing them on their little finger. We should have something like that for brewers.

Maybe Jeff would design a brewer's stainless steel ring (band of hops maybe) and Bluenose would start working on the oath to go with it (needs a touch of humour). It might catch on, and the Brewnosers would be famous for starting it.

[AllanMar]

The pledge/ceremony is a lot more cult like here in Canada, that must be the US one.

Including that's it's done by "the corperation of the seven wardens" and not supposed to be discussed. The oath was written by the guy who wrote the jungle book..... Haha

[GuingesRock]

Thanks for the correction. That is the US one. I did some more reading on the Canadian one:

The nearest analogue to the Hippocratic Oath in the modern engineering world is perhaps Canada's arcane-sounding Ritual of the Calling of an Engineer. The ritual dates back to a meeting of seven former presidents of the Engineering Institute of Canada held in 1922. Among them was HET Haultain of the University of Toronto who thought that engineers needed an organisation to bind them together and that the swearing of an oath would be the ideal way to guide the ethical development of young graduates.

Haultain subsequently wrote to Rudyard Kipling requesting his assistance in writing an oath and designing a ceremony. Kipling was more than happy to help, and penned the ritual now widely held across the country. A slightly shadowy affair, the ritual is held in private and its content is closely guarded by the Corporation of Seven Wardens, a group that exists only for this purpose.

The organisation says: "The Ritual of the Calling of an Engineer has been instituted with the simple end of directing the newly qualified engineer toward a consciousness of the profession and its social significance and indicating to more experienced engineers their responsibilities in welcoming and supporting newer engineers when they are ready to enter the profession."

One well-publicised feature of the ritual is the bestowing of an iron ring to be worn on the little finger of the working hand to remind the engineers of their vows and their responsibility to the general public.

Kipling himself apparently described the ring's symbolism thus: "It is rough as the mind of the young. It is not smoothed at the edges, any more than the character of the young. It is hand-hammered all around and the young have their hammerings coming to them. It has neither beginning nor end, any more than the work of an engineer, or as we know, space itself. It will cut into a gold ring if worn next to it: thus showing that one had better keep one's money-getting quite separate."

Not to be outdone, the US Order of the Engineer launched its own joining ceremony in 1970. Inductees take an oath known as the Obligation of an Engineer. Espousing the virtues of integrity, respect, honesty and tolerance, the ceremony similarly features the bestowing of a ring.

http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2012/0 ... o-this.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GuingesRock]

Plymouth, UK. My favorite piece of engineering. Built in 1859 and still in use today. I loved going over this bridge on train journeys as a kid.

[GAM]

Wife is an Architect and they have rings (a local thing) that actually make them stand out when you see them. Like an X ring, you know what it is.

Sandy

[bluenose]

Wife is an Architect and they have rings (a local thing) that actually make them stand out when you see them. Like an X ring, you know what it is.

Sandy

My father's an architect and an X grad... my sister used to say that if you asked Dad what time it was he'd tell you how to build a clock (I'm guilty of this too)