Force Carbonating Sparling Wine

[Juniper Hill]

I'm force carbonating some of last year's white wines. 5 G Riesling, 5 G Muscat in corney kegs. Both are in my beer fridge along with the CO2 tank with reg set at 10 PSI. The gas line is split with a T connector to both kegs.

Is 10 PSI a reasonable starting point to carbonate these? I have no idea how many volumes of CO2 I should be aiming for, but I guess it would be on the on the higher side of the scale. How long should I leave them carbonate?

Thanks,

Neil

[GuingesRock]

That sounds like a novel idea, or is it done in wine making sometimes. Can you pour some every day from a cobra tap and stop carbonating when you like it?...I don’t suppose you would need any help with that

My sister who lives in France (Provence) said there were huge hail storms in the Bordeaux region recently and destroyed this year’s crop and a lot of the vines. She said there won’t be any Bordeaux for a couple of years. Did you hear about that?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/a ... rms-damage

[LiverDance]

for the wine to balance out to 10psi at standard fridge temps should take about 10 days. You can speed up the process by going at 30 psi for 2 day then bleeding off the extra pressure dialing back to 10 psi and check the carb level that way I guess

[Juniper Hill]

My sister who lives in France (Provence) said there were huge hail storms in the Bordeaux region recently and destroyed this year’s crop and a lot of the vines. She said there won’t be any Bordeaux for a couple of years. Did you hear about that?

Wow. I don't buy much Bordeaux these days, but I could see that driving up wine and grape prices. Not to mention the economic impact to the region (although they are pretty flush with cash).

Force Carbing is done for many inexpensive sparkling wines, but there isn't much out there on how to go about it.

[Juniper Hill]

for the wine to balance out to 10psi at standard fridge temps should take about 10 days. You can speed up the process by going at 30 psi for 2 day then bleeding off the extra pressure dialing back to 10 psi and check the carb level that way I guess

Okay. I'll probably leave it at 10 PSI for a couiple of weeks. They're almost a year old, so what's another week. Brian/Mark, are you saying I should taste the wine to see if it's carbonated enough after it's finished? That makes sense...not sure why I didn't think of it.

[GuingesRock]

I was thinking taste it every day on 10 PSI until you achieved the carbonation you like, or have it on 50 PSI and taste it every half hour ........It could be tricky to decide and you might need some help with that

[John G]

I do this but use much a higher psi to get the volumes that sparkling wines are usually served at (3-6+ volumes of CO2) which is much higher than beer. I set my sparkling wines at 30-35 psi, which seems to be a reasonable carbonation level without requiring a whole fridge full of hose to drop the pressure at the tap for serving with reduced foam. Otherwise, to keep the amount of serving hose to a minimum you can keep the wine at 30psi when not in use, and drop it when you are thirsty for a glass to around 5psi. I do this for a night of sparkling wine when we have a few glasses with pizza. Then when we're done for the night I crank it back up to 30psi to maintain CO2 levels in the wine.

[Juniper Hill]

I do this but use much a higher psi to get the volumes that sparkling wines are usually served at (3-6+ volumes of CO2) which is much higher than beer. I set my sparkling wines at 30-35 psi, which seems to be a reasonable carbonation level without requiring a whole fridge full of hose to drop the pressure at the tap for serving with reduced foam. Otherwise, to keep the amount of serving hose to a minimum you can keep the wine at 30psi when not in use, and drop it when you are thirsty for a glass to around 5psi. I do this for a night of sparkling wine when we have a few glasses with pizza. Then when we're done for the night I crank it back up to 30psi to maintain CO2 levels in the wine.

So John your saying I need to crank up the PSI if I want to approach a comercial sparkling wine. I had no idea that wine had some much more CO2 than beer usually does. My plan is to carbonate and then bottle the wine with my beer gun...need room in the fridge for other stuff, like beer. I'll look at increasing the PSI. Thanks.

[John G]

Yes, sparkling wine in champagne-style bottles have very high carbonation. You may have fun trying to bottle it with a beer gun. Make sure that you only use champagne bottles that can withstand the pressure, and once carbonated, remove the gas line and then chill it down to near freezing for bottling. Chill the bottles as well and be fast with the corks once full. Personally, if I'm bottling sparkling wine I prime the whole batch with sugar and carbonate in the bottles to get the high volumes. The sediment on the bottom is so light and compact that only the last 1/2 glass is usually disturbed. However, this only works if you didn't add the sodium meta. and potassium sorbate.

Good luck!

[Juniper Hill]

Yes, sparkling wine in champagne-style bottles have very high carbonation. You may have fun trying to bottle it with a beer gun. Make sure that you only use champagne bottles that can withstand the pressure, and once carbonated, remove the gas line and then chill it down to near freezing for bottling. Chill the bottles as well and be fast with the corks once full. Personally, if I'm bottling sparkling wine I prime the whole batch with sugar and carbonate in the bottles to get the high volumes. The sediment on the bottom is so light and compact that only the last 1/2 glass is usually disturbed. However, this only works if you didn't add the sodium meta. and potassium sorbate.

Good luck!

Thanks John. I didn't bottle condition these mainly because they've been backsweetened (slightly to about 1% Residual sugar) to balance the acidity and stabilized. I also give away wine and beer to non-brewing friends who might not quite understand the sediment in the bottom of the bottle...makes no difference to me.

I cranked up the reg to 20 PSI. That should get me about 3.5 volumes of CO2. Hopefully bottling isn't a big mess.

Cheers,

Neil

[derek]

Chill the bottles as well and be fast with the corks once full. Personally, if I'm bottling sparkling wine I prime the whole batch with sugar and carbonate in the bottles to get the high volumes. The sediment on the bottom is so light and compact that only the last 1/2 glass is usually disturbed. However, this only works if you didn't add the sodium meta. and potassium sorbate.

Particularly the sorbate. Nobody likes to drink geraniums.

My wife made a national silver-medal sparkling wine last year. Her tips: Use "encapsulated yeast" for the bottle-priming (available at Noble Grape on special order, I believe). That stuff is awesome. It's like little beads that contain the yeast - and more importantly all the sediment produced by the yeast. We never bother with the disgorging process to clean the sediment, and I can pour to the bottom of the bottle and still get clean wine. And crown-cap - they take larger size crown caps than beer bottles, but it is way easier than bothering with corks. It's what the Champagne producers use right up until they send the bottles to retail.

[Juniper Hill]

Particularly the sorbate. Nobody likes to drink geraniums.

My wife made a national silver-medal sparkling wine last year. Her tips: Use "encapsulated yeast" for the bottle-priming (available at Noble Grape on special order, I believe). That stuff is awesome. It's like little beads that contain the yeast - and more importantly all the sediment produced by the yeast. We never bother with the disgorging process to clean the sediment, and I can pour to the bottom of the bottle and still get clean wine. And crown-cap - they take larger size crown caps than beer bottles, but it is way easier than bothering with corks. It's what the Champagne producers use right up until they send the bottles to retail.

I did use sorbate in these ones, as I backsweetened (just a bit) with some reserve juice. Should have enough sulfite to prevent spontaneous Malo-lactic fermentation, so hopefully no Geraniums.

I'm going to have to try those encapsulated yeast, thanks Derek. I read a thread on a winemaking forum where they placed the yeast in the hollow of a plastic cork and sealed them in with wire mesh. No disgorging and no sediment...almost too good to be true. I wouldn't be able to sweeten unless I used a non-fermentable one like xylitol....not sure about that.
I've generally been doing aromatic whites, and I find they show better with just a little RS ~1%

[derek]

I've generally been doing aromatic whites, and I find they show better with just a little RS ~1%

Yeah, keeping sweetness in wines is a little tougher than in beers. Grapes want to ferment to complete dryness. Grain needs to be coaxed.

Marta can't stand any sweetness in her wines, so that simplifies things.

[Juniper Hill]

So, I've been carbonating for about a week at 25 PSI. Noticed today that there was now some CO2 leaking around the pin lock connectors, possibly through the top slot. Is this unusual? The guys at NG thought it might be that the pressure on the connectors was exceeded...weird. I removed the connectors and turned off the tank. The popets seem to be okay.

Any thoughts, I'm still a bit of a keg newby.

Thanks,

Neil

[mr x]

Sounds like defective connectors to me.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[GuingesRock]

also...there isn't anything going on in the kegs like infection or a lot of priming sugar, which could make the pressure in them very high. You wouldn't be able to detect that on the regulator gauge as regulators have valves in them to prevent back pressure?

Faulty regulator gauge?

It's odd that the connecters (pleural) started failing at the same time. Makes me wonder if it is the regulator or something else simultaneously increasing the pressure in the kegs very high. Might be worth releasing the pressure in the kegs to be safe (smell the gas that comes off for any suggestion of infection). Could also depressurise and re-pressurise at 25 (assuming the regulator is ok) and see if the leaks reoccur right away. Might narrow things down a bit maybe.

[Juniper Hill]

Stopped by NG on the way home to get some hose clamps (haven't been using them) and connectors (carbonating 2 kegs through one reg with a T splitter). Upon further inspection, it looks like the problem is where the braided hose attaches to the barbs on the connectors. I trimmed up the hoses and reattached the connectors and everything held...no more leaks. I guess over time the hose ends become a bit stretched, which wasn't evident until I got the PSI up. Weird.

I did have a smell of the gas coming out of the kegs. Smells fine.