2016 Advent - December 5: Berlintermites - Berliner Weisse

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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Jimmy » Sat Jun 04, 2016 5:33 pm

MitchK wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if you got some fermentation during your souring if you just hucked raw grain in there - probably contained yeast too. How warm did you keep it? A high temperature like 110f would probably help prevent wild yeast from working.
I've never had a drop in gravity from the souring process. Not saying it's not possible, but hasn't happened to me.

How long did you sour for?
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by jtmwhyte » Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:09 pm

Nobody has mentioned (that I've noticed) that there is an option in beersmith to calculate boil off as a percent.

That has never worked correctly for me. I just boiled a known amount of water the first time I fired up my electric setup and it's been accurate each time.
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by LiverDance » Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:41 pm

jtmwhyte wrote:Nobody has mentioned (that I've noticed) that there is an option in beersmith to calculate boil off as a percent.

That has never worked correctly for me. I just boiled a known amount of water the first time I fired up my electric setup and it's been accurate each time.
Funny cause all I use is the percent amount.


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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Jimmy » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:18 pm

I use the liters/hour option.

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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by jtmwhyte » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:41 am

I'm going to mash this one in this afternoon and with aims to boil tomorrow night. I'll try using my electric setup to maintain 110 for lacto growth
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by LeafMan66_67 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:55 am

Jimmy wrote:I use the liters/hour option.

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Same here, with litres per hour.
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Lisa J » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:58 am

I understand that the acidity of this brew might slow the yeast down, but is it normal for there to be zero yeast activity 24 hours after pitching? (At room temp) I think I might have let it sour too much. I have narrow range litmus paper, and at midnight (24 hours of souring) my pH was approx. 4.1, so I let it sour more overnight. by 7:30 the next morning, the pH was below 3.8 (bottom of the measurable range of my litmus paper). I'm thinking that my pH was too low (and it is quite sour to taste), and that I've botched this one.

So questions:
1) Is it normal for the yeast to take a while to get going with a sour (the OG was only 1.020 to start with) - i.e. am I just being my usual super-impatient self, and I should just relax?
2) Assuming I have actually created a hostile environment for the yeast, and all is not lost, can I mash for another batch not sour it, and basically mix the 2 together to bring the pH back (essentially, I would have 2 batches at a higher pH)?

I think I see a pH meter in my future.

Thanks folks!!
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Jimmy » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:31 am

Lisa J wrote:I understand that the acidity of this brew might slow the yeast down, but is it normal for there to be zero yeast activity 24 hours after pitching? (At room temp) I think I might have let it sour too much. I have narrow range litmus paper, and at midnight (24 hours of souring) my pH was approx. 4.1, so I let it sour more overnight. by 7:30 the next morning, the pH was below 3.8 (bottom of the measurable range of my litmus paper). I'm thinking that my pH was too low (and it is quite sour to taste), and that I've botched this one.

So questions:
1) Is it normal for the yeast to take a while to get going with a sour (the OG was only 1.020 to start with) - i.e. am I just being my usual super-impatient self, and I should just relax?
2) Assuming I have actually created a hostile environment for the yeast, and all is not lost, can I mash for another batch not sour it, and basically mix the 2 together to bring the pH back (essentially, I would have 2 batches at a higher pH)?

I think I see a pH meter in my future.

Thanks folks!!
I suspect your beer will be OK. I've had beers (and not just Berliner Weisse) have a lag time of 24 hours or more.
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by CorneliusAlphonse » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:28 am

Also, with a gravity that low, the visible activity will likely be dramatically less
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Jimmy » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:30 am

CorneliusAlphonse wrote:Also, with a gravity that low, the visible activity will likely be dramatically less
That too.. Maybe it's done fermenting :lol:
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Lisa J » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:42 am

Jimmy wrote:
CorneliusAlphonse wrote:Also, with a gravity that low, the visible activity will likely be dramatically less
That too.. Maybe it's done fermenting :lol:
Hey, maybe it stealth-fermented overnight!! :spilly:

But seriously - I think the only thing to do in this case is make another one straight away, applying all the lessons from the shit I did wrong with this one!! I'll let this one hang out for a week or so, sorting itself out, and keg it anyway. Who knows - maybe I'll end up with a nice sour near-beer for the designated drivers.
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by robcoombs » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:16 pm

Jimmy wrote:
jacinthebox wrote:Hey Jimmy...did you use a particular water profile for this? Balanced/Munich/light and malty?
I may brew this up (loving Nash's sour)...I'll start with RO and built my profile from zero

Thanks in advance
I build mine up from RO as well:

Ca: 52.5 ppm
Mg: 9.9 ppm
Na: 13.3 ppm
SO4: 66.9 ppm
Cl: 84.8 ppm
HCO3: 14.4 ppm

Which, for my 10 gallon batch (49.54 liters of water total), I use the following additions:

7.43g Calcium Chloride
4.95g Epsom Salt
2.48g Gypsum
1g Baking Soda
1g Salt

I also use 5g of Wyeast Yeast Nutrient 10 minutes before flameout.
I know this was an old post. But I've had some issues getting lacto to drop the ph below 3.8 I have been wondering lately if it could be related to my water chemistry. My next attempt was going to be using RO water. Is there a possibility that water chemistry has an impact on lacto's ability to sour a starter and wort? Or are your adjustments entirely about adjusting flavors?

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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by AllanMar » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:00 pm

Lisa J wrote:
Jimmy wrote:
CorneliusAlphonse wrote:Also, with a gravity that low, the visible activity will likely be dramatically less
That too.. Maybe it's done fermenting :lol:
Hey, maybe it stealth-fermented overnight!! :spilly:

But seriously - I think the only thing to do in this case is make another one straight away, applying all the lessons from the shit I did wrong with this one!! I'll let this one hang out for a week or so, sorting itself out, and keg it anyway. Who knows - maybe I'll end up with a nice sour near-beer for the designated drivers.
I had a similar experience when I brewed one of these. Looked like it never started fermenting at all but when I checked FG it was done. I don't know if its the PH or the low OG (or both), but I wouldn't worry about it.

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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by jtmwhyte » Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:57 pm

Just knocked the temp down and "pitched" the unmilled grain at 5:30. Hoping to keep temp with my electric element. Purged the wort for 3 minutes and the headspace in my keggle for 4-5 minutes. hope that's sufficient.
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by CorneliusAlphonse » Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:31 pm

Lisa J wrote:
Jimmy wrote:
CorneliusAlphonse wrote:Also, with a gravity that low, the visible activity will likely be dramatically less
That too.. Maybe it's done fermenting :lol:
Hey, maybe it stealth-fermented overnight!! :spilly:
You joke , but that's exactly what I meant:)
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Lisa J » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:00 pm

CorneliusAlphonse wrote: You joke , but that's exactly what I meant:)
I left the house to go for groceries, returned, and the crazy-ass beer had started to ferment. It just took a while to think about it first. :cheers:
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Keith » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:07 pm

Lisa J wrote:
CorneliusAlphonse wrote: You joke , but that's exactly what I meant:)
I left the house to go for groceries, returned, and the crazy-ass beer had started to ferment. It just took a while to think about it first. :cheers:
Took 24 hrs for krausen to form in my red. However I don't know if my 46gram pitch rate had anything to do with it.
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Lisa J » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:22 pm

Keith wrote:
Lisa J wrote:
CorneliusAlphonse wrote: You joke , but that's exactly what I meant:)
I left the house to go for groceries, returned, and the crazy-ass beer had started to ferment. It just took a while to think about it first. :cheers:
Took 24 hrs for krausen to form in my red. However I don't know if my 46gram pitch rate had anything to do with it.
I think the little beasts just have their own agenda. And I'm so used to the feeding frenzy that happens in our big IPAs that waiting 36 hours for fermentation to start seems crazy. Anyhoo, can't wait for the result!
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Keith » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:43 pm

Yea 36hrs is a bit concerning but should have a descent pint in the end!
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by jtmwhyte » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:23 pm

Mine finished at pH 3.57 and og of 1.033 for 5 gallons. The wort tasted awesome. Can't wait to tap this one!
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Tap 1: Festa Brew Scotch Ale
Tap 2:
"Fill with mingled cream and amber,
I will drain that glass again.
Such hilarious visions clamber
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Come to life and fade away;
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Lisa J » Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:13 pm

jtmwhyte wrote:Mine finished at pH 3.57 and og of 1.033 for 5 gallons. The wort tasted awesome. Can't wait to tap this one!
Nice! :cheers2:
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Jimmy » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:17 pm

Going to brew up 15 gallons of this tomorrow. It's getting nailed with some raspberries.
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Lisa J » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:57 am

Jimmy wrote:Going to brew up 15 gallons of this tomorrow. It's getting nailed with some raspberries.
Do you add your raspberries post fermentation? And how much would you typically use.

I just threw some Mosaic into mine to dry hop for a few days, but I would like to add raspberries to the next one.
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by CorneliusAlphonse » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:03 am

Jimmy wrote:Going to brew up 15 gallons of this tomorrow. It's getting nailed with some raspberries.
How much for a keg in early August? :drool:
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Re: 2015 Advent - December 5A: Berlintermites - Beliner Weis

Post by Jimmy » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:19 am

Lisa J wrote:
Jimmy wrote:Going to brew up 15 gallons of this tomorrow. It's getting nailed with some raspberries.
Do you add your raspberries post fermentation? And how much would you typically use.

I just threw some Mosaic into mine to dry hop for a few days, but I would like to add raspberries to the next one.
This will be my first time adding raspberries to my Berliner Weisse. I'm likely going to do about 10 or 11lbs of frozen raspberries in my 15 gallon batch. I'll probably add them to the fermenter on day 3 of fermentation.
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