Kettle

[GuingesRock]

Yes, I think you would be correct. It was the open gas flame situation I was interested in though, and if the plate did slow down the time to reach boil, by how much?

[mcgster]

It will always slow down the time to boil, that is certain, by how much would depend greatly on the type of metal, thickness, and heat density that is hitting it. The difference would be noticeable at any thickness though.

[mcgster]

Yes, I think you would be correct. It was the open gas flame situation I was interested in though, and if the plate did slow down the time to reach boil, by how much?

People don't go around putting solid sheets of copper over their BBQ grills to speed up cooking?

[GuingesRock]

Yes, I think you would be correct. It was the open gas flame situation I was interested in though, and if the plate did slow down the time to reach boil, by how much?

People don't go around putting solid sheets of copper over their BBQ grills to speed up cooking?

If you could add a layer of some highly conductive metal to something and increase heat reaching that something, people would have stacks several inches/feet/miles thick and a candle would heat an entire neighbourhood.

Hahahaha

Another smart remarks there Mark! Smirks even. I'm done discussing this. Except to say that I was interested in the effect a steel plate, if used to reduce hot spots, would have on efficiency.

[mcgster]

I don't see how pointing out the fact that people grill with open flames all the time and don't put solid sheets of metal between their food and the meat is a smart remark, other than the fact that it is an accurate observation of the most common example of this, but to each his own. You are pretty quick to point out these types of things all the time.

[GuingesRock]

Pot calling the kettle black

[mcgster]

To the point about "radiation's" role in heating, i remember i was told in my physics classes years ago that anything in between the source of radiation and the desired sink "just gets in the way" and it was compared to microwave cooking as it most efficient way to cook via radiation and anything else in the microwave (plates, cups, etc..) will slow it down.

[Bluefin 774]

Hey gang. Going to be picking up a new kettle during the Black Friday madness. Currently an extract Brewer (5 gal) with no plans to go all grain. My current kettle is a 3.5-4 gallon turkey pot that limits me to partial boils.

Here is the question. For the same amount of $$, give or take I can get either an 8 gallon "tall" kettle (stainless) or a 15 gallon aluminum pot.

Looking to the brewnosers for advice/recommendations.

Cheers

WOW! A simple question about a pot and this is what happens.......I just don't get it anymore.

[GAM]

Nothing to get. Some are good and happy to go down rabbit holes. No one has to read it but sometimes it's fun.


S

[RossBee]

Nothing to get. Some are good and happy to go down rabbit holes. No one has to read it but sometimes it's fun.


S

This.

[mcgster]

Agreed, i'm always up for a good debate over blanket statements about what is needed to make good beer. Great beer can be made lots of ways! If there was only one way to brew good beer we would all just buy the book and keep to ourselves lol

[GuingesRock]

Nothing to get. Some are good and happy to go down rabbit holes. No one has to read it but sometimes it's fun.


S

Moving along now to the complex subject of rabbits ........

[RossBee]

Agreed, i'm always up for a good debate over blanket statements about what is needed to make good beer. Great beer can be made lots of ways! If there was only one way to brew good beer we would all just buy the book and keep to ourselves lol

You hit it on the head. The term "Good" is such an objective thing. You, as in not you but general you or yous, look at a painting and think it's wonderfull, cats ass and all that, I may look at it and think its a pieces of dog turd. Flavours and styles are the same way. It's a subjective thing. When it comes to consumeables, it's so subjetive that it may depend on what you ate in the last hour, a thing I call conditioning of the taste buds.

Assuming that the equipment has a major impact on good beer is just naiive, assuming the equipment has an impact on repeatability is just naiive, i.e. the equipment has not changed!!. Soup is made by the Chef, beer is made by the brewer, each contains the skill of the maker in varying the ingredients to affect the outcome.

[GAM]

Moving along now to the complex subject of rabbits ........

Not the The Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog !!!

S

[mcgster]

Assuming that the equipment has a major impact on good beer is just naiive, assuming the equipment has an impact on repeatability is just naiive, i.e. the equipment has not changed!!. Soup is made by the Chef, beer is made by the brewer, each contains the skill of the maker in varying the ingredients to affect the outcome.

This is how i feel at least, i have brewed my Ordinary Bitter on three different setups, keggle with a propane burner, 100L eBiab system, and my stove top 12L system and have really enjoyed it all three times, and it has scored around the same each time and won medals. I have also screwed up a batch of it on the same equipment and had an off batch.

[GuingesRock]

Moving along now to the complex subject of rabbits ........

Not the The Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog !!!

S

The very one!

[RossBee]

Assuming that the equipment has a major impact on good beer is just naiive, assuming the equipment has an impact on repeatability is just naiive, i.e. the equipment has not changed!!. Soup is made by the Chef, beer is made by the brewer, each contains the skill of the maker in varying the ingredients to affect the outcome.

This is how i feel at least, i have brewed my Ordinary Bitter on three different setups, keggle with a propane burner, 100L eBiab system, and my stove top 12L system and have really enjoyed it all three times, and it has scored around the same each time and won medals. I have also screwed up a batch of it on the same equipment and had an off batch.

Ditto, isn't it about the joy of creation, the joy of enjoying the the fruits of your labour and the sharing with others. I average about 40,000 litres of wine a year and 8,000 litres of spirits and liqueurs. As a rule, I do not enter competitions, to me it's a waste of product and money (my sister disagrees with me on this and goes behind my back, lol), nevertheless, it is nice to be recognized for what you do. Is that the endall? Not even close!!! It is taking delight and pride in creating something, sharing, and wholly old sheep shit, people come back and buy it. I make due with what I have, state of the art? Not even approaching the rung below the bottom rung, but we make due with what we have.

I do apologize to the site for having ranted on like this in the beginning, but this is something dear to me. Equipment does not make brewers, wine makers, distillers, chefs, mechanics, doctors, etc., it's the passion to make a go of it, it's the believe that, through whatever avenenue you decide to take, you can affect the desired outcome. Does equipment help? Of course it does, but it does not count for anything unless you have a mind to put into the task.

Final Rant, the End.

[GuingesRock]

This kind of rabbit hole thread is very good for broadening peoples' perspective. Everyone chips in with their own personal perspective. It's better by far than being insular and narrow minded. No one need change their outlook, no one needs to win the debate. There are no losers either. It's encouraging individuality and innovation.

There's some wisdom in Steffen's post, and I kind of think I may adopt some of it ...if I ever decide to become wise.

Was a brilliant post.

[Jayme]

As much as I agree, that equipment is by far not what makes a someone good or bad at brewing beer, but I'd wager the 'best' brew masters in the world could not brew great beer (or even good, maybe even not palatable) on really horrible equipment. At a certain point, there are certainly diminishing returns.

Personally, I find pondering and researching equipment almost as exciting as brewing itself. It's kind of like a hobby within a hobby for me. I enjoy reading thoughtful and respectful debate over these kinds of topics (meaning the more in depth aspects right along with the original topic). It is a shame when things have to go real off the rails and start edging towards nasty. However, I also think that happens constantly on 99.9% of forums haha.

[GuingesRock]

Yes, I think you are both right but here's something else. Some of the greatest beer in the world is actually made with very primitive equipment, concrete fermenting tanks open to the air, copper kettles etc. Have a look at these Michael Jackson videos. Not an ounce of Stainless Steel in sight (if I remember right, haven't watched them for a while). http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... f=3&t=4986" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mcgster]

As much as I agree, that equipment is by far not what makes a someone good or bad at brewing beer, but I'd wager the 'best' brew masters in the world could not brew great beer (or even good, maybe even not palatable) on really horrible equipment. At a certain point, there are certainly diminishing returns.

Personally, I find pondering and researching equipment almost as exciting as brewing itself. It's kind of like a hobby within a hobby for me. I enjoy reading thoughtful and respectful debate over these kinds of topics (meaning the more in depth aspects right along with the original topic). It is a shame when things have to go real off the rails and start edging towards nasty. However, I also think that happens constantly on 99.9% of forums haha.

Most of the innovative breweries that made it big in the craft industry started brewing on some pretty ancient systems so i'm not sure this is the case. When i was at Allagash this year they just completed a state of the art upgrade to their brew house that is one of a kind, it has all the bells and whistles you can dream of. Off in the corner was the original brew house that they used for years until recently, it was as bare bones as you get and they still use it to brew all their small batches for barrel aging or the coolship series (by far their best beers), the new state of the art system is designed to pump out allagash white over and over again.

[mcgster]

I like reading stuff from Sam Calgione talking about starting Dogfish head on their half barrel system, it was just like anything you could find in any of our basements. Quality beer had nothing to do with quality gear for them. Similar to Allagash most of their upgrades were done to reliably put out huge amounts of Dogfish Head 60

Screen Shot 2015-12-02 at 11.01.43 PM.jpg

[Jayme]

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I more meant good luck brewing a clean APA in a bunch of infected/scratched up plastic gear at home. At a certain point though, equipment can be a huge deal depending on what your ultimate goal is. A great brewer can certainly still make world class beer on even the most basic, yet still adequate equipment.

Cantillon's brewery is super old school and 'inferior' for brewing the beer that some people want to brew, but they produce world class unique beer. To the point where it may be unlikely they could brew the same beer in a state of the art brew house. You could be trying to reduce or add a very specific thing or flavour in your beer and there's one piece of equipment that makes it far easier to do than another. It doesn't mean the equipment has to be expensive to be good, but it may take some careful thought, research and experimentation to figure out what the best tool is for the job. If you're trying to reduce dissolved oxygen in packaged beer in a large brewery, I bet it's hard to do without investing in some very expensive equipment.

If you talk to a enough breweries, you will find that not all are still using their entire original brewing system, nor would they even consider it. I'm sure the only reason Allagash still would is because they can still achieve the exact beer that they want.

[RossBee]

I like reading stuff from Sam Calgione talking about starting Dogfish head on their half barrel system, it was just like anything you could find in any of our basements. Quality beer had nothing to do with quality gear for them. Similar to Allagash most of their upgrades were done to reliably put out huge amounts of Dogfish Head 60

Screen Shot 2015-12-02 at 11.01.43 PM.jpg

What a beaut!

[Jayme]

That original dog fish brewing system you posted a photo of is pretty kick ass by many home brewer's standards...!