HALP! Problems with volumes

[weisseguy]

Hey Brewnosers!I could really use your help

I've recently switched from kits to all grain but I'm having a lot of challenges achieving the desired post-boil volumes. My last batch was almost 8 gal pre boil and came out at around 4 gal (probably less) into the fermenter. This seems like crazy boil off amounts! Are near 50% boil offs common? The thing is, my OG is on point, I'm just not achieving an efficient yield. I'm thinking I might have something fucked up in Beersmith as I'm just beginning to use the program.

Gear:

15 gal brewpot - has a bazooka screen that I don't use
11.7gal mash tun w/ false bottom
Banjo burner (110,000BTU I think)

Thanks in advance!

[Hobbitfu]

There is a lot in Beersmith in Equipment profiles that will impact water volume calculations, including boil off rate. The higher the boil off rate the more water it will calculate for mash and sparge. But that volume of evaporation is very high. May need to lower the flame on your burner! I have electric elements and usually have about 3L of evaporation. Starting with about 7 gallons pre boil...

[Celiacbrew]

15 gal brewpot - has a bazooka screen that I don't use
11.7gal mash tun w/ false bottom
Banjo burner (110,000BTU I think)

Thanks in advance!

how do you measure the 8 gallons and how do you measure the 4 gallons and lastly how much is left in the kettle when you are done?

[Bizlair]

Did you measure 8 gallons pre-boil, or are you going by what Beersmith said you should have?
It could be a mixture of higher than expected boil off, and larger than expected dead space in your system.

Did you have the burner on full blast for the boil?

[jacinthebox]

Big thing is to know ur boil off per hour.
Quick math for my system is...batch size + half the weight of the grains in liters + boil off = total water needed. I do full volume mash

Example for my set up...
38l batch (In to the fermenter) + say 10l (assuming it's a 20lbs grain bill) + 10l boil off (my kettle/burner boils off 10l an hour wide open) = 58l total water needed. I take everything over to the fermenter. ..I don't leave much if anything behind.

[weisseguy]

Thanks everyone for the help so far! I think we're getting to the bottom of it!

There is a lot in Beersmith in Equipment profiles that will impact water volume calculations, including boil off rate. The higher the boil off rate the more water it will calculate for mash and sparge. But that volume of evaporation is very high. May need to lower the flame on your burner! I have electric elements and usually have about 3L of evaporation. Starting with about 7 gallons pre boil...

Hmm..I'll review the beersmith figures again to make sure they make sense. Thanks T Dogg!

15 gal brewpot - has a bazooka screen that I don't use
11.7gal mash tun w/ false bottom
Banjo burner (110,000BTU I think)

Thanks in advance!

how do you measure the 8 gallons and how do you measure the 4 gallons and lastly how much is left in the kettle when you are done?

My kettle is graduated inside so I was close to the 8gal mark..I am going on memory though. The primary fermenter I'm using is also graduated and the 4 gal is an educated guess.

Did you measure 8 gallons pre-boil, or are you going by what Beersmith said you should have?
It could be a mixture of higher than expected boil off, and larger than expected dead space in your system.

Did you have the burner on full blast for the boil?

The near 8gal was preboil measured as per graduated markings in my kettle not by Beersmith's numbers. I had the burner on high for about half of a 90 min boil, then realized it was boiling off quick and turned it down enough to result in a gentle boil. There seems to be a significant dead space too. I think you're on the money with the reasons here.

Big thing is to know ur boil off per hour.
Quick math for my system is...batch size + half the weight of the grains in liters + boil off = total water needed. I do full volume mash

Example for my set up...
38l batch (In to the fermenter) + say 10l (assuming it's a 20lbs grain bill) + 10l boil off (my kettle/burner boils off 10l an hour wide open) = 58l total water needed. I take everything over to the fermenter. ..I don't leave much if anything behind.

Yes, and where this was only my second batch I'm still getting used to my gear. I like that quick math because it's quick and it's math lol!

[Hobbitfu]

So a 90 minute boil. Was Beersmith setup for a 90 minute vs default 60? If set at 60 your volume numbers for mash/sparge would be lower than need to account for extra 30 minutes. As much as 2-3L depending on evaporation rate. Another setting to check!

[weisseguy]

So a 90 minute boil. Was Beersmith setup for a 90 minute vs default 60? If set at 60 your volume numbers for mash/sparge would be lower than need to account for extra 30 minutes. As much as 2-3L depending on evaporation rate. Another setting to check!

Yeah, I was set at 60 mins...good call.

[Bizlair]

Did you dump everything into your fermenter, or did you leave some "sludge" behind in the kettle? That would effect your reported post-boil volume.

Next time keep track of your pre-boil and post-boil volumes in your kettle. That'll give you a better idea of your boil off. Turn your burner down once you've reached a boil too. Your boil-off will be less that way (as will your propane bill).

You could do a test boil with water if you wanted to get a better idea of your boil-off before your next brew. Otherwise just turn the burner down, take measurements next time, and adjust from there.

[weisseguy]

Did you dump everything into your fermenter, or did you leave some "sludge" behind in the kettle? That would effect your reported post-boil volume.

Next time keep track of your pre-boil and post-boil volumes in your kettle. That'll give you a better idea of your boil off. Turn your burner down once you've reached a boil too. Your boil-off will be less that way (as will your propane bill).

You could do a test boil with water if you wanted to get a better idea of your boil-off before your next brew. Otherwise just turn the burner down, take measurements next time, and adjust from there.

The water test is a great idea. I'm certainly doing that to get a better understanding of the boil off rates. And yeah, I poured the sludge in my first batch and not in my second and my second was way lower yield which makes sense.

My boil kettle graduation only starts at 8Gal so anything under that is a mystery. Where can I get a metal graduation stick made especially for my setup I wonder?

[Hobbitfu]

Just have to make your own... Each pot can be different so add water in increments and mark a long handled spoon or something. Tedious but simple.

[weisseguy]

Just have to make your own... Each pot can be different so add water in increments and mark a long handled spoon or something. Tedious but simple.

I've already done this but I'm worried it will melt in the pot...I also am questioning it's accuracy given my results. Oh well, better than the first time when I "guessed" everything. By "guessed" I mean I guessed

[Hobbitfu]

There is a way of etching markers permanently in your pot... Just never enough time or inspiration to try

[Hobbitfu]

Look it up on byo.com...

[weisseguy]

Look it up on byo.com...

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[Celiacbrew]

You can also mark you kettle, it is easy. I did my kettle and I think there is a thread on here. Basically it is a battery and and a q-tip. It etches the surface just a tiny bit to make a slightly different pattern in the metal. I like it a lot.

[Hobbitfu]

Yes! The is exactly what I was talking about. Need to try that!

You can also mark you kettle, it is easy. I did my kettle and I think there is a thread on here. Basically it is a battery and and a q-tip. It etches the surface just a tiny bit to make a slightly different pattern in the metal. I like it a lot.