Nanobreweries?

[brufrog]

Are there any new nanobreweries (I know it is kind of a dumb term but whatever) on the horizon? I'm thinking of very small ones, like Patrice's Acadie Broue, or the guys up in Dalhousie with their tiny system.

I was hoping that these places would inspire a few homebrewers to go commercial on a very small scale. Maybe it is different in NS, regulation-wise, but I think Patrice's work in NB, plus his willingness to share his experience, provides a model that other ambitious brewers might adopt. This first step could help one learn the ropes, with the eventual plan to expand to a brew pub or larger micro. It is relatively risk free, and you can do it while working a full time job, assuming you are used to brewing regularly anyway.

I'm finishing up a story about this concept, so any comments you guys make could be helpful.

Cheers!
Craig

[Tim Gregory]

I'd love to do it, but from what I understand it's a lot more difficult to set something like that here.

[Graham.C]

Didn't it take Patrice 6 years to get set up? Maybe its easier in NB now that he is up and running, but that is still one hell of a time investment.

[brufrog]

It was hard (for the guys in Dalhousie too), but now that they've done it, and are so open about it, I think the next people coming along will have an easier time. I hope, that is, if they actually DO come along.

[Tim Gregory]

Just out of curiosity I looked up the regulations to get a Micro set up in NS. Obviously there are no Nano regulations (yet).

http://www.mynslc.com/Documents/Micro%2 ... cklist.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The license is $1000 a year (500 for a brewpub) plus insurance, etc. I'm not sure how much you'd have to make/sell to make it profitable. There are lots of rules and regulations, but I'm sure if someone was really dedicated they could probably pull it off. You'd probably run into the same zoning rules and stuff that Patrice had to deal with.

[brufrog]

I have emailed Greg B at NSLC about this. We'll see what he says about a 5000 litre per year operation versus a microbrewery.

[Tim Gregory]

Cool, let us know what you find out.

[vgoreham]

Hell Bay would classify as a nano, no? They've obviously dealt with (or perhaps more appropriately found a way to work around) the rules/regulations.

[brufrog]

I was looking through the nanobrewery story I write about Acadie Broue for TAPS, and I see where Patrice explained that, by brewing 100 litres max a month, he avoids excise taxes completely. So, what we need is around 500 breweries like this, each one with one tap at the closest pub to the brewery!

[brufrog]

Hell Bay would classify as a nano, no? They've obviously dealt with (or perhaps more appropriately found a way to work around) the rules/regulations.

I'm not sure nano is even an official term in the regulations. I don't see it in the NS guide. But anyone who opened a small brewery recently is worth listening to!

[brufrog]

And Hell Bay has a 400 litre kettle, and 400 and 600 litre fermenters. I think that's micro not nano, but gosh, who knows? Who sets the rules on that in Canada? I found a cool site listing nanobreweries in the US here: http://hessbrewing.blogspot.com/2009/11 ... n-usa.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It links to the TTB site for US excise tax, which doesn't define nano in any legal way, just as "small."

[vgoreham]

And Hell Bay has a 400 litre kettle, and 400 and 600 litre fermenters. I think that's micro not nano, but gosh, who knows? Who sets the rules on that in Canada? I found a cool site listing nanobreweries in the US here: http://hessbrewing.blogspot.com/2009/11 ... n-usa.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It links to the TTB site for US excise tax, which doesn't define nano in any legal way, just as "small."

I didn't know their kettle was that big. If I remember right they started with something much small? In any case, I'm sure they definitely have some knowledge to share.

[LiverDance]

I was looking through the nanobrewery story I write about Acadie Broue for TAPS, and I see where Patrice explained that, by brewing 100 litres max a month, he avoids excise taxes completely. So, what we need is around 500 breweries like this, each one with one tap at the closest pub to the brewery!

Count me out, we sometimes brew 120liters in a day

[brufrog]

And Hell Bay has a 400 litre kettle, and 400 and 600 litre fermenters. I think that's micro not nano, but gosh, who knows? Who sets the rules on that in Canada? I found a cool site listing nanobreweries in the US here: http://hessbrewing.blogspot.com/2009/11 ... n-usa.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It links to the TTB site for US excise tax, which doesn't define nano in any legal way, just as "small."

I didn't know their kettle was that big. If I remember right they started with something much small? In any case, I'm sure they definitely have some knowledge to share.

Yes they started with a 100 litre recirculating mash system. But they are ambitious!

[brufrog]

I was looking through the nanobrewery story I write about Acadie Broue for TAPS, and I see where Patrice explained that, by brewing 100 litres max a month, he avoids excise taxes completely. So, what we need is around 500 breweries like this, each one with one tap at the closest pub to the brewery!

Count me out, we sometimes brew 120liters in a day

Wow, how do you drink all that

[LiverDance]

Well when we do 120 liters it's for 3 of us. Two seperate 60 liter batches so everyone walks away with 2 new beers

[brufrog]

Just had a great chat with Derek from Shiretown in Dalhousie. They have stepped up production a bit! 4 X 80 litre brews a week. Plus they now have a hoppy beer: Hops On For Nowhere (for all you Zep fans;) Can't wait to get up there again and try it. Spring is my plan...

And apparently the excise thing is different than what I thought. Need to check into that, but I think you guys would be alright, Liverdance, as long as you don't PACKAGE over 100 litres in A SINGLE DAY

[derek]

I was looking through the nanobrewery story I write about Acadie Broue for TAPS, and I see where Patrice explained that, by brewing 100 litres max a month, he avoids excise taxes completely. So, what we need is around 500 breweries like this, each one with one tap at the closest pub to the brewery!

I doubt I could sell a 100 litres a month at my nearest pub. They send a kitchen boy out to the NSLC to pick up a six-pack when I order Propeller.

[brufrog]

if you serve it they will come (or something like that)

Just ask the guys at Shiretown in Dalhousie...former Coors Light drinkers drink their beer now...

[brufrog]

BTW Greg from NSLC got back to me. They seem to be quite flexible about this sort of thing. If anyone you know is serious about a "nanobrewery," they may be able to do it with lower than the usual fees. It does not hurt to ask. I wish I had the cojones to open one. Rothesay could sure use one... Of course I'd have to learn to brew again...

[mr x]

I kicked the tires at one stage, but it didn't seem worth the hassle. Nslc just don't inspire confidence for me. My experience was 'here's the forms, bye.' Costs were too high, and the forms were too idiotic. For instance, my floor plan is not a floor plan, it's a deck, etc. Don't have the patience for that stupidity. If nslc ever truly got their act together to encourage this it might be worth the effort, but I won't hold my breath.

[KMcK]

I'd fear making a lot of commitments and investments based on the assurances of the nice guy at NSLC, only to have him replaced by an analcrat who interprets the rules very differently.

[mr x]

...or be screwed down the road by the government via corporate puppet strings.

[brufrog]

I understand where you are coming from - not a lot of trust has been earned yet. I do think Greg B is sincere, and I don't believe he is a political guy - he's a lifer. You might want to chat with him and see how things have changed. He told me that they (via the craft brewer's assoc) are looking at new policies for "nano"breweries (which includes defining them!) But, of course, when it comes to safety issues (like brewing on your deck - although personally I don't see a problem, as long as it is not above a kids play area or something - can't be worse than brewing on top of a pizza place in the middle of a food court! it is not their call.

[mr x]

The funny thing is, I'm brewing how I want regardless...jumping through dumb hoops that cost money to satisfy beaurocracy is a show stpper for me, and I suspect others. But, if you send me his address, i'd talk to him, see if things really are moving in the right direction on this.