Repeated Infections *UPDATE*

[mattvincent24]

So, some time has past and I've tried just about everything I can think of but still this infection persists. I've done two more batches since and both have the same problem. Here's a break down of the extra efforts for those two batches:

Batch 1
- hot soaked glass carboys in oxyclean overnight and let sit until day before brew day. Then another hot oxyclean soak over night, rinse and starsan.
- soaked immersion chiller in oxyclean over night.
- made a yeast starter from my slants. Let sit at room temp for a week after it fermented out and no signs of contamination.
- ran boiling wort though ball valve and silicone tubing to sanitize throughout the boil.
- transferred cool wort into carboy, pitched yeast, attached airlock and didn't remove it for anything during fermentation.

So at this point even though there were no sign of contamination in the stater and I ran boiling wort though the ball valve, I could see nothing else but my yeast or the ball valve being the problem.

Batch 2

- new smack pack of yeast.
- totally dismantled the ball valve. Two over night hot soaks in oxyclean and one over night in starsan. And also boiling wort through it on brew day.
- kept the lid on the boil kettle thought the chilling process.

so here I am. 20 more gallons of infected beer and very discouraged. The thing I don't get is the cooled wort had minimal air contact and the only thing it touched after the kettle was the sanitized carboy. Unless I have some kind of starsan immune wild yeast clinging to my carboys I'm stumped. As unlikely as that may be I think my next step it to use some acidified bleach on my carboys before next the next brew. Please if anyone has any suggestions pass them along and I'll answer any questions regarding my process. And for the people who think that maybe there's really no infection , well I thought that too. So I took some of a pale ale that was showing the visual signs but still tasted good on kegging day and put a sample in a 500ml pressure cooked flask and let it sit for a month. it ended at 0.998 FG and tasted like cloves!

[mattvincent24]

One more thing. On last two batches the visual signs of the contamination showed up as soon as the krausen fell where as previously it took weeks in the secondary for the film to form. All that attention to cleanliness and sanitization and the problem seems to be getting worse!

[CorneliusAlphonse]

Hmm I'm really not sure, maybe try using some harsher chemicals to clean stuff? Hot caustic comes to mind. Are you using any physical activity during cleaning ie a brush or one of those drill powered carboy cleaners? Just in case there is stuff that you cant see sticking to the glass.

[mattvincent24]

Harsher chemicals is where i'm headed, but im not very confident that it will work. And yes, i use a casrboy brush to get most of the thick stuff off the surface of the glass before i soak in oxyclean.

[mr x]

I would guess wild yeast if you are seeing signs when the krausen falls, but it's hard to say from here.

I might be able to help with some better chemicals as well.

[mattvincent24]

What do you suggest for chemicals? From what i read over the last few months acidified bleach seems to be the best bet, but it seems like it needs to be handled with caution.

[LiverDance]

What kind of chiller do you have? I would take a strong look at that and maybe try the no chill method just to see if it makes a difference? Also where do you store the carboys when fermenting, maybe try a different spot in your house.

[mr x]

I have specialized chemicals that can be utilized. Also, are you giving airlocks and bungs a thorough sanitizing?

[Jayme]

I can't see the starsan being inadequate. Even if you do have some crap still in your carboy, it will penetrate that.

Did you stop crushing grain in the fermenting room? Replace siphon hose?

[mr x]

I'd like to see some pics of the brewday setup.

[mattvincent24]

No more grain crushing in my fermenting room, plus i bleached every surface of that room before I resumed brewing. I have all new plastics (auto siphon, tubing ect.) but I didn’t get to use it yet. Remember, i drained from my boil kettle strait in to my primary and haven’t removed the air lock since. The cooled wort only touched my boil kettle (obviously), Ball valve, silicone tubing, and my fermenter.

[LiverDance]

. The cooled wort only touched my boil kettle (obviously), Ball valve, silicone tubing, and my fermenter.

and your chiller.

[mattvincent24]

yes and the chiller, which by the way was hot soaked in oxyclean, sprayed with starsan and boiled for 20 min in the kettle. And ill work on some pics over lunch, but i dont think i have a pick of me draining the kettle into the fermenter.

[mr x]

I always run boiling water or fluid through the entire transfer path in place. In other words, those pieces are not moved after being sterilized.

[mattvincent24]

That's exactly what i did.

[CorneliusAlphonse]

That's exactly what i did.

Yup, I can't see any way for it to get infected before it gets into the carboy, personally. So unless there is wild yeast in the air when you are transferring to the carboy (which would remain in the headspace and could be causing this) the only thing I can think of is the cleanliness of the carboy itself (and it sounds like you are cleaning it pretty well)

[akr71]

Batch 1
- hot soaked glass carboys in oxyclean overnight and let sit until day before brew day. Then another hot oxyclean soak over night, rinse and starsan.
- soaked immersion chiller in oxyclean over night.
- made a yeast starter from my slants. Let sit at room temp for a week after it fermented out and no signs of contamination.
- ran boiling wort though ball valve and silicone tubing to sanitize throughout the boil.
- transferred cool wort into carboy, pitched yeast, attached airlock and didn't remove it for anything during fermentation.

Your saved yeast could be the vector for this one, but fresh yeast in batch 2 would suggest otherwise.

Batch 2

- new smack pack of yeast.
- totally dismantled the ball valve. Two over night hot soaks in oxyclean and one over night in starsan. And also boiling wort through it on brew day.
- kept the lid on the boil kettle thought the chilling process.

Last summer I had a couple batches in a row with an infection (plasticy/vinyl taste). I threw out my racking cane, tubing and airlocks, boiled my silicone tubing and bungs and soaked my carboys in bleach overnight (and then rinsed at least 3 times). I was getting the infections after my regular starsan routine, so I figured it wasn't up to the task. That's what finally fixed my problem.

[mr x]

Is your starsan good and clear? Or maybe mixed at a weak strength (which may make it cloudy, not sure).

[mattvincent24]

i try to mix my starsan a little too concentrated for added insurance, but i could measure more precisely, good point, but it is clear.
Anyways heres some pics. this the film on top of the beer, 2 week primary. as days go by it doesn't seem to be getting worse visually. And its broken apart from moving the carboy, is was all one piece originally.

[mr x]

That film isn't necessarily infection, I see lots of odd stuff on my beers.

[Ladd]

whats your recipe? This looks like it could be lipids on the surface. I did a couple of chocolate stouts with cocoa and molasses and had a lipid layer on the top that looked just like this (is it stringy at all? It's not lipid if it is). I was convinced it was an infection but after reading a lot of other people having the same problem with similar recipes I realized it was a lipid layer. I have only ever seen it with that recipe, but it was there each of the three times I brewed it (total head killer too...).

[mattvincent24]

I have specialized chemicals that can be utilized. Also, are you giving airlocks and bungs a thorough sanitizing?

Air locks and bungs were hot saoked overnight in oxyclean and then stored under starsan for weeks before brewday. I store everything that can fit in my 5 liter glass jugs under starsan. Tubeing, hydrometer, ect.

[mattvincent24]

Wow, Thanks for all the replies guys! I can't even keep up. I’ve had the same film in 2 stouts, a rye PA , APA, DIPA, wit, Scottish and 2 brown ales. I had that sample that super attenuated, plus different phenolic flavours. I really think its an infection. I will however take another sample of the most recent beer (kegging tonight) and put it in a small flask at room temp and see what happens to it.

[mattvincent24]

Last summer I had a couple batches in a row with an infection (plasticy/vinyl taste). I threw out my racking cane, tubing and airlocks, boiled my silicone tubing and bungs and soaked my carboys in bleach overnight (and then rinsed at least 3 times). I was getting the infections after my regular starsan routine, so I figured it wasn't up to the task. That's what finally fixed my problem.

Great to hear a sucess story. I will follow this advice for the next brew.

[crabby hermit]

I was having infection problems as well. I only brew kits,but was finding my beer only stayed good in the keg for a few weeks then started to go down hill rapidly after a lot of trial and error I think I narrowed it down to my water, I have a drilled well and may have Something in it that doesn't agree with brewing. I started buying bottled water and have had really good results since. not sure if this may apply to you, just my two cents.