Simple Summer Session Saison

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dean2k
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Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by dean2k » Thu May 30, 2013 9:31 am

Danstar Belle Saison experiment #2. My first go with this yeast yielded a super-high octane saison, so I'm purposely toning it down. Here's the preliminary recipe assuming an 85% attenuation (conservative?)

OG 1.044
FG 1.007
IBU 35~ish

64% Belgian Pils
18% Wheat Malt
12% Special Roast
6% Local Honey (http://www.seasidehoneyfarm.ca/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Not sure of the hops. I was thinking that the tang of the special roast and simcoe would be interesting. Thoughts?
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mr x
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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by mr x » Thu May 30, 2013 9:47 am

I don't like that much special roast in a saison on sight, but maybe it's good...and I know I'm a broken record about this, but that honey is a waste AFAIAC. Use sugar instead and put the honey on food.
At Alexander Keith's we follow the recipes first developed by the great brewmaster to the absolute letter. :wtf:

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by LiverDance » Thu May 30, 2013 9:50 am

I'm with X on the speical roast and against him on the honey :P If honey was useless we wouldn't have mead :lol:
"Twenty years ago — a time, by the way, that hops such as Simcoe and Citra were already being developed, but weren’t about to find immediate popularity — there wasn’t a brewer on earth who would have gone to the annual Hop Growers of American convention and said, “I’m going to have a beer that we make 4,000 barrels of, one time a year. It flies off the shelf at damn near $20 a six-pack, and you know what it smells like? It smells like your cat ate your weed and then pissed in the Christmas tree.” - Bell’s Brewery Director of Operations John Mallet on the scent of their popular Hopslam.

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by jeffsmith » Thu May 30, 2013 10:07 am

I'm thinking that Simcoe may clash with that yeast, but I could be completely wrong. I'd personally go with something like Styrian Goldings, Willamette, Nelson Sauvin, or Saaz.

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by dean2k » Thu May 30, 2013 10:49 am

In defense of the Special Roast, my thoughts are to use its tang in place of the acidulated malt/sour mash that I see in a lot of recipes. However, I could probably knock it down by half.
jeffsmith wrote: I'm thinking that Simcoe may clash with that yeast, but I could be completely wrong. I'd personally go with something like Styrian Goldings, Willamette, Nelson Sauvin, or Saaz.
I've never really considered yeast-hop pairing before. Any references I can follow up, or is that intuition? I did see a lot of recipes calling for Styrian Gs and Saaz, but I unfortunately don't have any of those. Originally had been musing about Simcoe @ 60 and EKG late. Would Northern Brewer be considered more appropriate/cleaner @ 60?
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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by jeffsmith » Thu May 30, 2013 10:58 am

Simcoe would definitely work for bittering—it was more intuition than anything. EKG would work well for late addition.

I like the thought behind the use of Special Roast, definitely worth a shot.

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by mr x » Thu May 30, 2013 11:33 am

I like special roast at 6% much more so than at 12%.

For the honey, IIRC there was a guy in the states making an awesome honey wheat at his brew-pub, and he was using 30% honey. I can't see 6% being of any value over plain sugar. I'd use honey malt....
At Alexander Keith's we follow the recipes first developed by the great brewmaster to the absolute letter. :wtf:

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by LiverDance » Thu May 30, 2013 11:38 am

I've never heard mention of "tang" coming from special roast I've always though it gave a bready biscuity taste but now that you mentioned it I recall my best bitter on tap having what you might say is a tang. Not a bad thing but just different, more research is required! :beer2:
"Twenty years ago — a time, by the way, that hops such as Simcoe and Citra were already being developed, but weren’t about to find immediate popularity — there wasn’t a brewer on earth who would have gone to the annual Hop Growers of American convention and said, “I’m going to have a beer that we make 4,000 barrels of, one time a year. It flies off the shelf at damn near $20 a six-pack, and you know what it smells like? It smells like your cat ate your weed and then pissed in the Christmas tree.” - Bell’s Brewery Director of Operations John Mallet on the scent of their popular Hopslam.

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by LiverDance » Thu May 30, 2013 11:42 am

mr x wrote:
For the honey, IIRC there was a guy in the states making an awesome honey wheat at his brew-pub, and he was using 30% honey. I can't see 6% being of any value over plain sugar. I'd use honey malt....

way back in the day I remember having one downtown (maybe split crow) ,brewed by shippys possibley, that I thought was awesome. Did Greg used to make one? X do you remember the brew pub? I kinda wanna make one now
"Twenty years ago — a time, by the way, that hops such as Simcoe and Citra were already being developed, but weren’t about to find immediate popularity — there wasn’t a brewer on earth who would have gone to the annual Hop Growers of American convention and said, “I’m going to have a beer that we make 4,000 barrels of, one time a year. It flies off the shelf at damn near $20 a six-pack, and you know what it smells like? It smells like your cat ate your weed and then pissed in the Christmas tree.” - Bell’s Brewery Director of Operations John Mallet on the scent of their popular Hopslam.

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by dean2k » Thu May 30, 2013 11:47 am

Thanks for all the feedback guys. :cheers2:

X: Using the honey (late) to add some floral as well lighten it up like sugar would. I worry that 30% would put me into braggot territory.
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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by gm- » Thu May 30, 2013 11:52 am

I recently brewed a similar beer, supposed to be nice session saison, will keg it soon, but it tastes great at the moment.

I used
64% Pilsner
20% Wheat malt
4% Aromatic
4% Amber
8% Belgian candy sugar (clear)

Willamette and Tettnang for hops. Willamette at 60 and flameout, Tettnang at 15.

Not sure I would like Simcoe in a beer like this, but EKG sounds good. The Special roast sounds interesting as well.

Fermenting: Oud bruin/Vienna Pekko SMaSH
On tap: Nelson dry hopped Berliner/ Scottish Heavy 70-/ NE IPA

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by mr x » Thu May 30, 2013 11:58 am

dean2k wrote:Thanks for all the feedback guys. :cheers2:

X: Using the honey (late) to add some floral as well lighten it up like sugar would. I worry that 30% would put me into braggot territory.
But if you add the honey to the kettle, any of the floral you could possibly get will be gone. And at 6%, the floral would be non-existant from my experience, and i've adding larger doses of honey after fermentation has pretty much ended.
At Alexander Keith's we follow the recipes first developed by the great brewmaster to the absolute letter. :wtf:

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by dean2k » Thu May 30, 2013 2:24 pm

If I ditch the real honey for the sweetness of honey malt, I could go for a sweet and sour sort of vibe with the special roast. Still stuck on the hops though. Citrusy hops would seem to be appropriate then. Work in progress!
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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by Seanstoppable » Fri May 31, 2013 9:58 am

dean2k wrote:Danstar Belle Saison experiment #2. My first go with this yeast yielded a super-high octane saison, so I'm purposely toning it down.
That's my own first experience with this yeast. Had to pour out bottles this week. Will be interested in a success story. Good luck!

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by dean2k » Fri May 31, 2013 1:57 pm

Seanstoppable wrote: Had to pour out bottles this week....
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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by Seanstoppable » Fri May 31, 2013 7:37 pm

dean2k wrote:
Seanstoppable wrote: Had to pour out bottles this week....
Image

Still have a few, 'just in case', but need to use the rest to bottle what should be drinkable beer.

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by dean2k » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:49 pm

Unless I'm misreading the refractometer, looks like the Belle Saison yeast took right of again. Even listened to X and didn't add the honey. Doesn't look like you need any sugars to get low with this yeast. Define sessionable again?
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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by gm- » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:13 am

dean2k wrote:Unless I'm misreading the refractometer, looks like the Belle Saison yeast took right of again. Even listened to X and didn't add the honey. Doesn't look like you need any sugars to get low with this yeast. Define sessionable again?
Hah, same happened with my Saison, used the WLP platinum strain 585 Belgian Saison III. OG 1.073, FG 1.006, will be dangerous. Very nice floral and fruity aromas though, followed by sharp tartness, just like I wanted it, just a bit too boozy.

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by mr x » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:19 am

Are you using the refract for a FG? I could never get that to work....
At Alexander Keith's we follow the recipes first developed by the great brewmaster to the absolute letter. :wtf:

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by NASH » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:28 am

mr x wrote:Are you using the refract for a FG? I could never get that to work....
Flakey as balls :lol:

Transmitted from the hop-phone.

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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by dean2k » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:40 am

NASH wrote:
mr x wrote:Are you using the refract for a FG? I could never get that to work....
Flakey as balls :lol:

Transmitted from the hop-phone.
Flakey balls? Go see a doctor! :lol:

Anyhoo.... only 5 or 6 days in so it's not the official FG, and I'll take that with my floating hydrometer. But I use I'll the refractometer to get a ballpark for where things are at. I do like the fact that it's less intrusive, but I hate how I need to convert the brix, do all my calculations, adjust for temp, walk backwards in a circle, sacrifice a pigeon, etc. However, after the last few batches, turns out that the refractometer wasn't broken after all.
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Re: Simple Summer Session Saison

Post by dean2k » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:30 am

In the end, the hydrometer was not lying. Crossing "session" off of the title. Got down to 1.000 again. Not sure if it's the yeast or if my overnight mash is producing too much short-chain sugars. Guess we'll find out when I take a ready of my latest overnight mash not using the Danstar Belle Saison.
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