2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

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jmacdonald
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2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by jmacdonald » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:07 pm

Session Ale
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Boil Size: 14.03 gal
Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients
14 lbs 3.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
1 lbs 4.0 oz Caramel Malt - 10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM)
1 lbs 0.3 oz Carapils (Briess) (1.5 SRM)
1 lbs 0.3 oz Vienna Malt (Great Western) (3.5 SRM)
15.46 g Centennial [8.50 %] - Boil 55.0 min
15.46 g Centennial [8.50 %] - Boil 35.0 min
15.46 g Cascade [6.60 %] - Boil 20.0 min
15.46 g Cascade [6.60 %] - Boil 5.0 min
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.…Yeast

Mash In
Add 6.28 gal of water at 163.8 F

Mash Steps
Step Temperature 150.0 F
Step Time 75 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 10.66 gal water at 168.0 F

**Edit**
Split batch into 2 buckets and pitched a package of yeast per bucket.
Last edited by jmacdonald on Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by LiverDance » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:33 pm

Having this one now. Get a touch of green apple on the nose, I see 1 pack of US05 for 11 gallons,, could be from stressed yeast? Other wise the carbonation, color, and mouthfeel are great. I would like a bit more hops but that's just me :spilly:
"Twenty years ago — a time, by the way, that hops such as Simcoe and Citra were already being developed, but weren’t about to find immediate popularity — there wasn’t a brewer on earth who would have gone to the annual Hop Growers of American convention and said, “I’m going to have a beer that we make 4,000 barrels of, one time a year. It flies off the shelf at damn near $20 a six-pack, and you know what it smells like? It smells like your cat ate your weed and then pissed in the Christmas tree.” - Bell’s Brewery Director of Operations John Mallet on the scent of their popular Hopslam.

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by PMackie » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:55 pm

Mine unfortunately didn't have much carbonation, bottle must of been a dud as no one else is reporting it. I thought I was tasting oxidization but after reading everyone else's its likely green apple. This is something I fear with my own so don’t be offended, I hate bottle carbonation. Otherwise I love the colour and clarity of the beer. Really nice malt backbone on the tongue. Not super hoppy but I am getting some. Definitely session-able as it should be and I would drink it again.


Edited
Last edited by PMackie on Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by mumblecrunch » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:02 pm

There's a nice grainy/biscuity note and a slight floral/citrus hop aroma. Tasting it before reading the recipe I guessed American hops, so that came through alright. Carb could be a little higher, I think, and there wasn't much of a head or retention.

I'm definitely tasting a fair amount of acetaldehyde here that's giving it a slight tartness and may be contributing to an overall drying sensation. Acetaldehyde is usually a yeast health issue, either not enough healthy yeast or taking the beer off the yeast too soon. One package of yeast might have been a little light in an 11 gallon batch, even for a session ale. That looks like a Beersmith report cut 'n pasted above; the "starter" tab can tell you whether you should use multiple packages based on gravity, volume and yeast age. I'd also be inclined to move some of those hops top flameout, but that's a personal preference.

All that said, I still enjoyed drinking this. Thanks for sharing!

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by Halifax_Jeff » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:19 pm

Thanks for the beer brother! Proper yeast pitch could have turned it up a bit!

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by mdentremont » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:56 pm

Had this one last night after hockey. I enjoyed it, but I was getting a lot of butter/caramel which might be the stressed yeast not being able to clean up the diacetyl? This didn't stop me from smashing it while vegging on the couch, thanks for sharing! I have absolutely no judging experience so don't read too far into this, I could just have been too tired to know what I was doing.
Last edited by mdentremont on Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by know1 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:11 pm

Nice grainy malt base and easy drinking overall. Nice color and clarity. I too get the acetaldehyde on the nose as well as some buttery and slickness likely from diacetyl. Bit of a caramel apple thing going on, interestingly. As mentioned, easily cleaned up with happy yeast. The bitterness is balanced but personally I'd use a clean bittering hop for the base IBUs and push all those aromatic C hops under 20 minutes for an aroma burst.

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by CartoonCod » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:22 pm

Poured with a nice white foam with really small bubbles that lingers and laces on the glass. In the nose I get predominantly green apple, some sweet caramel malt character and a bit of hops, but I find the green apple over powers the hops. I am getting green apple, sweet caramel and nice resin hops for the flavour. It finishes with a lingering sweetness but not cloying. The bitterness would be low/medium for this style. I second the comments above about the acetaldehyde, throw in another packet of yeast in there and this beer would improve quite a bit. I find it is difficult to get a nice balance with caramel malts and beers often end up with too much caramel sweetness, but you found a really nice balance. All in all thanks for the nice beer!

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by jmacdonald » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:09 am

I actually split the back into 2 buckets and pitched a package per bucket. Beer stayed in the chamber for 3 weeks at 64 degrees before moving it to kegs and carbonating, which was a week later than I had planned. Even made sure the bottles had CO2 in them before filling, and again before capping.

Could an infection cause this? I did notice small cracks in the bottom of one of the buckets after transferring to the keg. :(

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by mumblecrunch » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:28 am

jmacdonald wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:09 am
I actually split the back into 2 buckets and pitched a package per bucket. Beer stayed in the chamber for 3 weeks at 64 degrees before moving it to kegs and carbonating, which was a week later than I had planned. Even made sure the bottles had CO2 in them before filling, and again before capping.

Could an infection cause this? I did notice small cracks in the bottom of one of the buckets after transferring to the keg. :(
Aha. Acetaldehyde is a byproduct of fermentation that generally gets "cleaned up" later on. So pulling a beer off the cake too quickly can be a problem, but obviously wasn't the case here. The likely culprit is a rather low fermentation temperature and then moving straight to keg and carb without a warmer rest. I know S-04 gives me tonnes of acetaldehyde if I ferment it cold and don't give it 3 - 4 days at a warmer temperature. US-05 (and lots of other yeasts) probably have similar tendencies. It's usually called a "diacetyl rest" but there are other things that get eaten and/or reabsorbed as the beer sits, especially if you get the temperature up into the 68 - 70 range. If you ferment at 68 - 70 to begin with you tend not to need a warmer rest, but as I'm sure you're aware you do risk some more ester production.

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by Brewnoser » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:12 am

jmacdonald wrote:I actually split the back into 2 buckets and pitched a package per bucket. Beer stayed in the chamber for 3 weeks at 64 degrees before moving it to kegs and carbonating, which was a week later than I had planned. Even made sure the bottles had CO2 in them before filling, and again before capping.

Could an infection cause this? I did notice small cracks in the bottom of one of the buckets after transferring to the keg. :(
Just judged this blind without the recipe.

First it’s pretty much in style for 18-A. American Blonde.

Second. Acetaldehyde in high enough quantity to be concerned.

Was the yeast dry yeast? Was it hydrated before pitching? What was the temperature of ferment?

I don’t perceive a significant infection here. I’d look to better yeast management. The beer has potential.

That caramel is not diacetyl. Maybe Munich or Vienna malt in an ale?

More details here

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by sheppard107 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:33 pm

mumblecrunch wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:28 am

I know S-04 gives me tonnes of acetaldehyde if I ferment it cold and don't give it 3 - 4 days at a warmer temperature.
This helps explain some of the acetaldehyde issues I've had over the years. I like to ferment cool, but don't generally warm up my ales before kegging. Thanks for the tip.

Back to the beer in question, I noted acetaldehyde as well. But I certainly still enjoyed it and would happily drink more if offered. Thanks for sharing!
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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by jmacdonald » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:28 pm

mumblecrunch wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:28 am
The likely culprit is a rather low fermentation temperature and then moving straight to keg and carb without a warmer rest. I know S-04 gives me tonnes of acetaldehyde if I ferment it cold and don't give it 3 - 4 days at a warmer temperature. US-05 (and lots of other yeasts) probably have similar tendencies.
Thanks for that. I have done diactyl rests for my lagers, but did not think I would need to rest if fermented at 64. This is most likely the issue here. I am going to pull one of the kegs out and allow it to warm up, maybe pitch a bit more yeast and see if I can make the off flavours go away. I was able to fix a lager this way once when it gave the butterscotch flavours from too short of a diactyl rest.

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by John G » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:52 pm

jmacdonald wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:28 pm
mumblecrunch wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:28 am
The likely culprit is a rather low fermentation temperature and then moving straight to keg and carb without a warmer rest. I know S-04 gives me tonnes of acetaldehyde if I ferment it cold and don't give it 3 - 4 days at a warmer temperature. US-05 (and lots of other yeasts) probably have similar tendencies.
Thanks for that. I have done diactyl rests for my lagers, but did not think I would need to rest if fermented at 64. This is most likely the issue here. I am going to pull one of the kegs out and allow it to warm up, maybe pitch a bit more yeast and see if I can make the off flavours go away. I was able to fix a lager this way once when it gave the butterscotch flavours from too short of a diactyl rest.
If that does not work, I would suggest the acetaldehyde may be from oxidation and if so, will not improve by warming it up. My beers pulled off the yeast too fast give a fresh green apple flavour associated with acetaldehyde and can be cleaned up by the yeast afterwards doing what you suggest. Acetaldehyde from oxidation can express as an apple cider aroma/flavour, which is what I picked up in your beer. I did not detect any diactyl in your beer and I'm particularly sensitive to it. I thought the beer was tasty otherwise. It was very malt focused as has been mentioned already.

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by GCR » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:30 pm

I've sure learned a ton from the comments section on this one!

Green apple taste very present, but as others have noted the maltiness was quite nice. Thanks for sharing!

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by Buccaneer » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:16 pm

I shared this with a friend. She got a lot of acetaldehyde, whereas I picked up a lot of movie popcorn. I may not be describing that correctly (I can't put a word to a smell). Based on the advice already given, I'd love for you to try this again and I would love to taste it - there's a great beer hiding in there!

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Re: 2018 Advent - December 4th - Session Ale

Post by Ruby » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:42 pm

Thanks for the brew! The lacing on the glass was beautiful. I was ready for a beer tonight, and this was very refreshing. It tastes like a cream ale. Hopping was very subtle and the malt was sweet and biscuitty. The body was medium with light carbonation. If there were another bottle here, it'd be gone too!

Thank you!
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