My first stab at designing a recipe: Black IPA - Thoughts?

[Cheesehead]

I've got all of 3 all grain batches under my belt now (BIAB) and have really missed the mark with gravity on the recipes. When I used the BIA Brewer calculator (http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=189" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) to determine the amount of H20 to use, I've noticed it always calls for a lot more grains than what I've used in the recipes I have been following. For batch #4 I'm planning on brewing a Black IPA (one of my favorite styles) and used a recipe I came across online (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/black-i ... ut-281367/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) as a starting point and made tweaks to get in more in line with the OG and IBUs for the Garrison version of the style (one of my absolute favs).

Here's what I've come up with:

% of bill Grams
American 2-Row 74.86% OR 6030
Honey Malt 5.59% OR 450
Oak flakes 2.79% OR 225
Crystal 120 8.38% OR 675
Chocolate Malt 8.38% OR 675

Hop Name Grams AA% Time
Columbus 28 15.2 60
Columbus 14 15.2 15
Cascade 14 6.2 15
Simcoe 14 12.9 15
Columbus 28 15.2 0
Cascade 28 6.2 0
Simcoe 28 12.9 0

IBUs: 59

Planning to mash at 152°F for 60 minutes, boiling for for 60 minutes and using 2 packs of Safale US-05 (as suggested in the recipe).

Should 2 packs of Safale US-05 be enough? I've used a couple of smack packs for each of my first 3 batches.
Thoughts on overall recipe? The honey malt and oak flakes are left overs I'm looking to use up.

[mr x]

Not so big on the oat flakes in an IPA. There are good Black IPA recipes here IIRC, like this one:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=386&p=15265&hilit=black+ipa#p15265" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, if this is 5 gal, one pack of -05 should be good enough.

[RubberToe]

That's a lot of chocolate malt for a black IPA too. Did you mean oat or oak flakes (like in your post)?

You're going to get a lot of chocolate and roast with 8% choc malt. I do like a bit of roast flavour with my black IPAs but you might find that too much. I use around 10% in my porter and you can really taste it. Are you aiming to use that malt to make up the colour?

[Cheesehead]

Mr. X - Thanks for the link to the other recipe and the feedback on the yeast.

Rubber Toe - Yes, I meant to put oat flakes. For the chocolate malt to add some taste as well as color but don't want it to be overpowering. What would you suggest for chocolate malt : 450 g / ~5.5% or less? What would you top up with (crystal)?

[Jimmy]

In what way are you missing your gravity? Higher or lower than estimated? What's an example of your grain bill and what is your volume into the fermenter?

[Cheesehead]

Way, way low.

Last batch was a super saison - target OG: 1.062 - actual: 1.044 -

Grains (total 5787 - bohemian pilsner - 2610, wheat malt - 2610, aromatic - 227, carapils - 227 & rice hulls 113. 23 Litres into the fermenter - I probably had an extra 3 litres (no sludge) I could have added. Had boiled for 90 minutes.

[Jimmy]

I probably had an extra 3 litres (no sludge) I could have added. Had boiled for 90 minutes.

That sounds like the culprit.

If your pre-boil volume and gravity is correct, then your boil-off rate is wrong (thus not "concentrating" your wort as much as anticipated). If your pre-boil gravity is low, and pre-boil volume is high, then it sounds like you're using more water than needed on your system. If you're following a recipe that's been formulated for a non-biab system, you'll most likely need less water because you don't lose water due to transfers between vessels, and BIAB generally holds less water in the grain.

[Jimmy]

Are you starting your "boil time" once it actually starts boiling, or when you start to apply heat for the boil?

[Cheesehead]

Once it hits 212F

[Jimmy]

Yeah, that's the proper way to do it.

I'd try and lock down your volumes - I'd think that's the cause of the lower gravity. Check your pre-boil volume & gravity to see if you're extracting what you're supposed to be from the mash. If your gravity is low but volume is high, you can decrease the amount of water you're using. If your Gravity is high and volume is low, increase the amount of water you add. If your gravity is correct and volume is correct, your boil off rate is lower than what is being calculated (leaving you with extra wort, at a lower gravity).

[CorneliusAlphonse]

you don't lose water due to transfers between vessels, and BIAB generally holds less water in the grain.

out of curiousity, what kind of volumes etc do you use? (for grain adsorption, etc). My volumes are always hit and miss with my cooler BIAB method.

[Jimmy]

For the cooler BIAB method I normally use around 34/35 liters for 23 into the fermenter and a 60 min boil.

My single hop beer was 1.056 OG, 12.32lbs of grain, and 34.86 liters of water.

Standard BIAB I normally used around 32/33 liters, if I remember correctly.

[RubberToe]

Re the flaked oats, that's not bad. I usually add flaked barley at almost the same amount and flaked oats are very similar except you may get a silky mouth feel from them. That's not so high an amount as to be overpowering and looks good to me.

Regarding the choc malt for a black IPA, half that would probably be plenty. Be careful not to go too heavy on the dark crystal either as it will be too sweet. Black IPAs often use some kind of debittered black malt for the dark colour, ie the carafa III in your HBT link. If a substitute is hard to find just be careful not to go too overboard on chocolate or other roasted malts as it may be too overpowering and it may be confiusing to drink an intensely roasty & intensely hoppy beer at the same time. To each his own though, and whatever you go with you'll find a baseline that you can alter for your next brew weather you like it or not. Don't go too crazy over it and you'll still make beer!

[mr x]

There is carafa III in Tim's recipe from this site as well.

[Dirt Chicken]

I think that I still have lots of black prinz malt, and could spare some

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[Cheesehead]

In terms of volume I've only been going as high as 34L to start, even if the calculator suggests more (I boil and cool some extra water in case I need it but have only used it 1/3 batches). I've got a 48 L pot so leery of boil overs although based on comments seems the boil off is low. Any way to change that?

Regarding the chocolate malt, I'll plan to go with 225, and sub Carafa III with black malt (NG doesn't stock Carafa III and suggested this in its place). So I'll plan to go with this for malt:

American 2-Row 74.86% 6030
Honey Malt 5.59% 450
Oak flakes 2.79% 225
Crystal 120 8.38% 675
Chocolate Malt 2.79% 225
Black Malt 5.59% 450

Also planning on lowering the hops at flame out:

Columbus 28 15.2 60
Columbus 14 15.2 15
Cascade 14 6.2 15
Simcoe 14 12.9 15
Columbus 14 15.2 0
Cascade 14 6.2 0
Simcoe 14 12.9 0

Thanks for the offer for the black prinz but I'm in Moncton and looking to get this order shipped to Fredericton Feb 2nd while I'm there. Wish we had a NG here.

Thanks everyone.

[jeffsmith]

Have you tried E&L on Elmwood Drive? I think they've started carrying some AG stuff.

[berley]

Greg, I may have some Carafa Special (I or II, can't remember which) to spare... could probably manage to get it to you while you're in Fredericton.

Too bad NG doesn't carry it anymore... I know they used to have the III. They really should have one dehusked dark malt in stock at all times.

[Cheesehead]

I haven't been to E & L in a while. I think I heard they will order some in from other places but normally add a big mark up (better off ordering and having it shipped to your house is what I hear). But will try to stop in on the weekend if I get a chance to check it out. Thanks for the tip.

That would be great Shawn - let me know if you have any. I've got (unmilled) CaraMunich and Aromatic malt kicking around if you're planning on using any anytime soon.

[jeffsmith]

I haven't been to E & L in a while. I think I heard they will order some in from other places but normally add a big mark up (better off ordering and having it shipped to your house is what I hear). But will try to stop in on the weekend if I get a chance to check it out. Thanks for the tip.

That would be great Shawn - let me know if you have any. I've got (unmilled) CaraMunich and Aromatic malt kicking around if you're planning on using any anytime soon.

If you happen to be in the Amherst area, feel free to give me a shout, I've got a couple pounds of Carafa III Special and tons of Midnight Wheat.

[Cheesehead]

Thanks for the offer Jeff but I don't expect down your way in the near future. Where do you buy more of your supplies - in Halifax?

[Cheesehead]

Jeff, I did stop into E & L today and they told me that they sell for the same price as Noble Grape (although they don't give the Brewnosers discount). They order it from NG, it takes a few days to come in but they normally order pretty much every week. I'm still going to plan to pick up an order in F'ton next weekend but will likely start ordering though them. Thanks again for the tip! Also, sounds like Shawn has some Midnight wheat he can spare for me.

[jeffsmith]

Good to know. For most of my non-bulk stuff I'll grab it at either NG if I'm in Halifax or order online.

[Graham.C]

I haven't been to E & L in a while. I think I heard they will order some in from other places but normally add a big mark up (better off ordering and having it shipped to your house is what I hear). But will try to stop in on the weekend if I get a chance to check it out. Thanks for the tip.

That would be great Shawn - let me know if you have any. I've got (unmilled) CaraMunich and Aromatic malt kicking around if you're planning on using any anytime soon.

If you happen to be in the Amherst area, feel free to give me a shout, I've got a couple pounds of Carafa III Special and tons of Midnight Wheat.

it's a little late to chime in but I also have midnight wheat you could have. Although Sackville is not much closer than Amhurst.

[Cheesehead]

Thanks for the offer as well Graham. I'm going to be in Fredericton next week and Shawn said he could spare some for me.

Generous bunch!!!